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Beyond Double-Elimination

Updated: 10 Mar 2012  

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Here are some ideas for tournament formats and features that go beyond the double-elimination format.

Why? In general, half of the fighters or fencers get two bouts in a double-elim. We can do MUCH better than that.
 

Definitions

 

 

Formats

 

Open Field

In this format, each side has contests against as many other sides as desired within a time limit (such as an hour). After each contest, make sure the scorekeeper knows the result.

What to do about double-kills: pick one

  1. Both sides take a loss.
  2. Re-fight once. If there is a second double-kill, both sides take a loss.
  3. Re-fight until one side wins.

Optional rules

Open Field with Point System (individuals)

In this format, combattants are ranked based on awards received for the relevant form of combat. Higher-ranked combattants are worth more as they are supposed to be more difficult to defeat. I recommend the following using the following scale.

Rank   3 Tier 2 Tier Value
I   High award High award 6
II   Middle award    Low award 4
III   Low award No award 2
IV   No award Authorized for
less than a year  		 1

 
A kingdom with a "3 Tier" award system has three levels of awards (GoA, AoA, nonarmigerous) for the relevant form of combat, while a kingdom with a "2 Tier" award system has only two levels of awards (AoA, nonarmigerous) for the relevant form of combat. Most kingdoms have a 3 Tier system.

I also recommend using a variation on the New Opponent rule - no repeat contests until the side has fought all of the other sides who are still in, with a limit of three contests total against a given side in the tournament.

Ransom Price (individuals)

Use the point system above, but a combattant is out if they run out of coins. (Pretend coins, that is. I advocate against using real currency.) Assign to each combattant their starting "wealth" based on rank as described above.

Rank Starting
Wealth		 Value Minimum
Contests
I 18 6 3
II 16 4 4
III 12 2 6
IV 9 1 9

 
Melee option

All survivors on the winning side who leave the field divide the ransom collected for defeating the losing side. HOWEVER, each able survivor (no leg wounds, no more than one arm wound) on a side can choose to rescue ONE other survivor who took a leg wound. If no one is able to leave the field at the end, all of the combattants in the melee lose their own ransom value.

Example: If Side A with a Rank I and a Rank II lose to Side B, but only one combattant on Side B is alive and mobile at the end, that combattant gets all 10 coins as ransom for Side A. If that combattant is on the ground from a leg wound, no coins.

Optional rules

Decide beforehand (preferably with consensus from the participants) on whether coins are transferable between combattants, transaction limits and circumstances, and so on.

Points for Weapon Combination (individual fencers)

Warning: If you don't like number crunching, just skip this section.

Combattants can earn points for taking a less advantageous, more inconvenient weapon combination in a bout. I think this works better if most or all of the participating fencers have more than the basic forms to choose from.

Points   Items used
0   Two swords
1   Sword and dagger
2   Sword and hard defense OR two daggers
3   Sword only OR dagger and hard defense
4   Sword and soft defense OR dagger only
5   Sword and cape/cloak OR dagger and soft defense
6   Dagger and cape/cloak

 

* I know of at least one fencer who had some success using a corset in this manner.

Before taking the field, both fencers go to the scorekeeper and declare the weapon combination they are about to use for the contest. After the contest, both fencers report the result to the scorekeeper.

Points earned by winner

Points earned by loser

Bear Pit(s)

This is similar to the Open Field format, but there are a set number of pits (areas for combat). By default, the winning side stays in the pit. I think a good guideline is one pit per six to eight sides, if you have enough space and marshals. That way, there would be only four to six sides waiting in the line for a given pit.

What to do about double-kills: pick one

  1. Both sides take a loss. The next two sides in line enter the pit.
  2. Re-fight once. If there is a second double-kill, see #1 above.
  3. Re-fight until one side wins.

Berserker Troll Pit (individual fencers)

From Mikolaj Pilypas (Meridies). This is a variation on a Bear Pit format.

All fencers begin with a single weapon. The original version has a single pit.

[Yves here. Mikolaj ran this at Castle Wars VII for about 20 fencers with considerable success. He started it off with himself as the first Troll and was finally taken down when he faced four fencers.

If there were enough fencers, I think this would work fine with TWO OR THREE pits where the defeated fencers are directed alternately to the other pits for variety. With two pits, every other defeated fencer would go to the other pit. With three pits, defeated fencers would be directed alternately to the other two pits.]

Round Robin (pools, shark pools)

Divide the sides into one or more groups, each one called a pool. Each side has one contest against each of the other sides in that pool. Both sides report the result to the scorekeeper. The top finishers could then compete in an elimination list to determine a winner. Handle double-kill results the same as you do for Open Field.

Swiss Five

This format features five rounds, preferably with an even number of sides, where each side has a contest against another side with the current same win-loss record. Sometimes there may be a mismatch to prevent repeating a contest between two sides.

Conventions and options

“This Old Castle”

An elimination format tourney from Stefan d'Gascon (Meridies). Here is his description.

European castles have clockwise ascending stairs to favor the Defenders and hinder the Attackers. Right-handed attackers have a wall/pillar on their sword side. Defenders do not. To allow spectators to view the engagements, there cannot be an outer wall. I used a 30' by 7' white tarp to create a curved inner wall. Create an outside edge three feet from the wall the fighters can 'fall' off. I used a red and white rope. Encourage the spectators to watch for fighters stepping on or over the rope.

Attackers start at the left 'doorway'. Defenders start at the right 'doorway'. Let the fighters pick a side (try to be even to start with) and form lines. At the command to "lay on" the fighters at the front of each line should advance until they make eye contact.

Once a fighter has a win as both an Attacker and a Defender in the current round, he may go rest until the next round begins.

Two losses (three if the number of fighters is small) in the same round means that fighter is out. Eliminated fighters are encouraged to stay around to help with bye fights for when the two lines become uneven.

We allowed three deaths in the first round and two deaths in the following rounds. In round one, when a fighter died twice, he then went over to the other doorway. The "death count" resets for every round. To use two-man teams, make the ledge five feet wide.

Team Tournaments

 

Bonfield Battle

Duke Finnvarr de Taahe, KSCA wrote an account of the Bonfield Battle hosted by the Shire of Flaming Sky, Ealdormere from AS 31 that was "inspired by the accounts of the Histoire Guillaume le Mareschal" (aka William Marshal). It has rules for being 'unhorsed', 'disarmed', escorting captives, escaping, rescuing captives, and ransoms.

“Looking Out for Number One”

My nickname for the following tournament concept. Mr. David D. Friedman (known in the Society as Cariadoc of the Bow) wrote an essay in 1984. Here's the salient portion.

I once participated in a melee tournament (a melee is a group fight) under rules that did, to some extent, recreate the conflict of interest between the individual and the army. The tournament consisted of a series of melees with randomly chosen teams. After each melee the fighters on the winning side received points according to their condition; an uninjured fighter received the most points, a fighter who died (but whose side won) received the fewest. At the end of the day, the fighter with the most points won. Under such a system, the fighter has an incentive to help his side win, but he also has an incentive to let someone else get killed in the front line while he bravely defends the rear. If we fought such tourneys more often, and if the winners received sufficiently valuable prizes, we might learn more about how medieval armies really worked.

“Burgundian”

Divide the combattants into two equal sides/teams. Each combattant has one bout against each combattant on the other side. Otherwise, this is basically the same as having pools as described earlier. According to Wikipedia, this is also called the Scheveningen system - named for a 1923 chess tournament there.

Why "Burgundian"? It is easier to say than "Scheveningen" - which is a district of The Hague.

That - and Burgundian dukes ruled the Netherlands from about 1384-1555...

“Sable and Azure”

Named for two main heraldic colors of the Barony of the South Downs, it is a variation on the Burgundian system. When I ran it in the past, I tried to sort the combattants into two even sides considering both rank and geography. In recent years here, an adjacent shire typically brought about half of the total combattants, so I tried to make it so that they had more bouts against people from other groups.

Conventions I used


Group stage (pools or teams)
Knockout stage (elimination list)

Pool A: W had 6 wins, M had 5 wins, F was a top-tier fencer with 3 wins.
Pool B: J had 5 wins, while A, C, and K had 4 wins each.

W, M, A, and C were all from the same home group. F and K were from another home group.

I see six top finishers who all have 4 wins or better. F won't qualify, but I can (with his consent) use him for a destructive bye.

I used a single-elimination, best two out of three format for the remaining contests. A defeated F. K defeated C (reversing their pool result!). A defeated K. I then had my four finalists: W, J, M, and A.

At this point, I put W against J and then M against A, but could have (should have?) put M against J instead and then W against A. Either way, A was going to face someone from his own group next. (If you're curious, M defeated W at the end.)

“Pears and Jam”

This is my idea for a strategic two-part tournament for equal sides that features individual combat rounds in the first part and melee combat in the second part. See the links below for more information.

Armored combat version. Rapier combat version.

 

Features

 

Entry Requirements

One, or perhaps more, of the following may be criteria may be used.

Inherent

Other

Limited Combat Area

 

Drop on one or more sides

If a combattant supports their weight against or over the boundary, they are out of that bout. Also see "This Old Castle" above.

Special shape example: Thor’s hammer

Silver Hammer, the annual fall tournament hosted by the Barony of Thor's Mountain in Meridies, features a rough outline of a Thor's hammer for the list area for both the armored combat and fencing fields.

Melee Teams

Here are some examples.

 

Tokens for Weapon Combinations (individuals)

This is a variation on the Open Field format. Each combattants receives an ID token (such as a ribbon of a certain color) for each weapon combination allowed in the tournament. In each contest, both combattants should use the same weapon combination. With double-kills, bout until there is a winner. The loser gives their ribbon to the winner. The combattant with the most ribbons at the end wins.

Fencing weapon combinations

One rapier, One dagger, Two rapiers, Two daggers, Rapier+Dagger, Rapier+Soft defense, Dagger+Soft defense, Rapier+Hard defense, Dagger+Hard defense, and so on

Armored combat weapon combinations

One sword, Two swords, Sword+Shield, Sword+Buckler, Glaive, Great sword, Spear, and so on

Roses (individuals)

This is for an open field tournament. Each combattant receives a number of roses (say, three) at the start. The winner of the contest may require their defeated opponent to go give one of their roses to a certain person, perhaps with a message. Combattants may purchase more roses - this can serve as a fundraiser.

Pain and Death

These are intended for elimination tournaments.

Dead is Dead

A double-kill result means both combattants are out.

Wounds Retained

Any wounds a combattant takes on the field are kept for the next contest. If a 'death' does not remove the combattant from the tournament, they return with no wounds.

Excessive Wounds

In addition to Wounds Retained, if a combattant takes wounds in any two limbs, they must yield and retire (either take a loss or leave the tournament). If a combattant takes any four wounds, they must yield and retire.

“Iron Butterfly”

My nickname for the format that Irene von Schmetterling used for certain tournaments from her time in Meridies: Wounds Retained + Dead is Dead

Healing

Combattants and/or their sponsors may be able to 'purchase' or otherwise acquire items or services to heal lethal or non-lethal wounds. Also see below.

Outside Participation

 

Tokens from the Gallery

Use with Open Field or Round Robin. Tokens should be given for a favorable impression of the combattant - especially from eloquence, appearance, or puissance (combat skill). The tokens could be used to heal wounds, gain 'lives', gain access to certain weapon styles, count as auction currency, and so on.

“Duel at Midnight” (individual fencers)

From Jean-Michel d'Aix-en-Provence from his time in Meridies. This is a variation on a Round Robin format that could also work with just one pool or in a Burgundian format.

Fencers are divided into two pools. Each fencers receives a card with the names of the other fencers in that pool. Each fencer must have a contest against each of the other fencers in that pool. There are two options for each contest.

  1. Legal option: The two fencers present a reason to duel to the marshal in charge (MIC). If the MIC finds there is just cause for a duel, permission will be granted. The duellists should go find a marshal and have their duel.
  2. Ruffian option: The two fencers find a marshal and duel without permission from the MIC. However, duelling without permission is "illegal". If the MIC catches you, you could be taken out of the tournament. The MIC is "open to hearing pleas, begging, and arguments..."

For each duel, the two fencers should decide the victory conditions. The MIC encourages not playing to the death.

[Yves here. There is no mention of how to report the win-loss results. Here's one idea: the marshal for each bout would write the result and their initials or sigil on both fencers' cards. Each fencer would give their card to me after they have fought everyone listed on their card. Any ties would be resolved to end up with one finalist from each pool.]

The winners of the two pools (the Primaries) meet at feast and enjoy what may be their last meal. To help with the ambiance, their Seconds are encouraged wait on the Primaries during feast.

After feast, the Primaries, their Seconds, and a marshal go out to a secluded area to be observed from the feast hall. The winners then settle their differences.

Random Elements

Weapon combinations and/or target areas for a given bout would be determined by dice, a "wheel of misfortune", or the like. Meh.

=end=

 

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Original page posted: January 1, 2011 • Last tweaked: March 10, 2012
 
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