Results and comments from the Aug/Sep 2003 survey.

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Ýves’ big SCA rapier survey #1 ~
Comments on the survey itself

Updated: May 24, 2005 

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Policy blurb

By default, authors of comments sent in response to this survey are named only by their permission. Usually, other people mentioned in a comment are named only with their permission as well. Each comment represents only what the author typed in for the survey at the time.

» This survey was conducted during August-September 2003. Things change over time. «

Some comments were edited for content. Certain harsh words have been changed for your amusement. Opinions expressed by the authors do not necessarily reflect those of the surveyor.

To get YOUR name listed with YOUR comments, just give me permission. See the e-mail button and information at the bottom of the page. Let me know your SCA name and kingdom (as of Aug/Sep 2003), and I'll add the attribution to your entries.

# of Responses
by Kingdom
 
AEth.  = 34/235
Anst.  = 36/240
An Tir = 56/347
Art.   = 12/124
Aten.  = 27/460
Atl.   = 60/425
Caid   = 49/400
Drach. = 21/76
Eald.  = 12/77
East   = 46/480
Loch.  = 22/120
Mer.   = 27/140
Mid.   = 52/640
Nor.   = 25/164
Out.   = 26/214
Tri.   = 46/237
West   = 14/70
Unk.   = 2

The gist

Many people gave me compliments, a few had complaints, and a few had some suggestions for future surveys.

Question 29

Any comments on the survey itself?

The comments

 

Note: Any remarks in the comments below from Yves look like this.

For more comments and stats, see the links at the bottom of the page.
 

What will happen with the data/comments?

Φ AEth. ~ Looking forward to seeing the results. What will you be doing with the comments?  ``Christian

Φ An Tir ~ Not bad. What will happen with the data?  ``Dormouse

Φ Atl. ~ I hope the results will be posted publicly (E-mail and ames omitted).

Φ Caid ~ I think the survey is a great idea. When & where will the results be published?  ``Iliana

Φ Caid ~ Not bad. But for what are you using the info? You may have mentioned this before, but I just jumped into the survey and didn't stop to read anything.  ``Kelan

Φ Nor. ~ An all-around good survey... will we be getting an email on the final results?

Φ Out. ~ Interesting. You will, of course, provide the raw data somewhere? :)  ``Ildiko

Results and comments are now posted for everyone to read.
Notice was sent forth on the kingdom-level e-mail lists for rapier.

About the raw data: I typed numbers and yes/no answers from e-mails into Excel. I copied comments and statistics from e-mails into Web pages. If you are TRULY interested in the raw data, let's talk.

Why are you doing this? What’s the goal?

Φ AEth. ~ Whats this all about? this sounds like a lot of work for you.  ``Parion
Φ East ~ So what's the goal of the survey?  ``Cynan
Φ Loch. ~ whats the reason behind this ?
Φ Out. ~ Good job! What's it for?  ``Zygmunt

Here’s my answer.

Beginner, newbie, newcomer, novice

Φ Anst. ~ For someone who has been fencing about a year, many questions seem irrelivant due to lack of experience, but it made me want to go out and try more stuff.

Φ Aten. ~ Much more geared towards experienced fighters. As a beginning rapier fighter just looking to buy her first rapier of her own, some of the questions were difficult to answer or simply irrelevant. But pretty cool - I'll be interested in the answers!  ``Reina

Φ Drach. ~ Again, as a newbie, I felt there wasn't terribly much I could relate to, as the survey seems designed for more experience fencers.

Φ Tri. ~ Please don't use the term "Newbie". Though you do not mean it as such, it is a derogitory term. Try "beginner" instead. It is an accurate term.

Though I do not feel "newbie" is inherently derogatory, I did replace it with "novice".

Φ Tri. ~ It might help if there were a few qustions for newer fencers, as some of these, i'm just going on ddirect experiance, and since i started in feb of 2003, i don't have that much experiance.

The “In” thing

Φ Tri. ~ Interesting survey. I'm not sure that it takes into account the really WIDE range of people who are becoming active in rapier though. I had never picked up a weapon of any kind prior to my reign a couple years ago, but saw that the rapier community in Trimaris needed real help and so I made them my pet project. After stepping down, I became an authorized fencer, and over the last year it has become the "in thing" for a lot of the Peers and Royal Peers in Trimaris to pick up the sport. My own Don is _____, but in the last year we've added 6 more royal peers, 3 laurels, 4 pelicans and a bunch of knights... all of whom had no interest prior to the last couple of years. I think that this has done GREAT things for rapier in Trimaris (at least in terms of visibility, social acceptance, etc), but all of us are non-traditional fencers and still tend to face a lot of frustration because the expectation is that fencers should fence, almost exclusively. So we find that although many of us perform very well when we can, we get overlooked because we simply can't be there all the time. Good luck with your survey and project.  ``Dulcia

My deep and sincere gratitude, Your Excellency.

Perceived flaws, absences, etc.

Φ Anst. ~ Soe questions can be taken several different ways and it depends on what you are looking for. The answers can be useful but take it all with a grain of salt.  ``Claire

Φ Aten. ~ Really didn't ask about melees. Just a thought.

Φ Caid ~ Assumes that people don't like to teach, and that tournaments are the best way to judge talent (left out melee talent).  ``Arabella

I received the two above comments early in the survey and added more melee-related content to the criteria in the question on skill rank.

Φ Eald. ~ Some of the questions assume an answer and give various degrees of that answer when the truth can be greatly varied from your assumptions. You have let your own expierences (and the experiences in your area) colour your expectations too much. I answered as best as I could but some answers did not apply to me particularly well.  ``Wilhelm

Φ East ~ For the weapons form questions, a column for "haven't tried it yet" is maybe needed.  ``Lilia

Φ East ~ There are lots of questions that just don't apply or aren't capable of being answered the way you've set them up.

Φ East ~ I think it is based too much on collegiate fencing/tourney styles. I'm far more interested in historic swordplay, brawls, and battlefield combat. Much of the survey doesn't apply to me.

Φ Out. ~ I wonder how many will be confused by the "quarters" questions (I love math, but many don't)?  ``Guillaume

Oh, there were at least a few...

Φ Tri. ~ This ambigious question [the one on skill ranking], you do not leave room for area between good and excellent in the ratings. And why would a fencer base his or her concept of thier abilities on what others tell them? I have seen fencers go on and on to the OWS about how great they are, and the person in question is rhino hider that has little or no real skill:)  ``Elric

For additional crtitical comments, see the LadyRapier archives during the time of the survey.

Privacy

Φ Nor. ~ Just don't like the idea of having to give a name and e-mail as this information should be private.

I understand your concern. No one HAD to and several chose not to. However, getting an e-mail address (or other contact info) makes it easier for me to contact a respondent if I have questions about their responses. Also, this was placed just before the first question on the survey:

All questions are optional. There are no "required" fields in the form.
 

Rank, precedence

Φ Nor. ~ On current OP, you left out any Royalty/Nobility ranking.  ``Rodrigo

Φ Out. ~ What is the reason for the "Alphabet soup" questions? Some people do not like the idea that they may be judged based on their awards (the opinion of a peer counts, but a peon's doesn't). I share this concern, although I don't think that is your intention.  ``Guillaume

The sole purpose was to check the population distribution regarding kingdom-level service awards. Everyone's answers are being treated equally.

Solo practice?

Φ Caid ~ I am not sure what you mean by "solo practice" Is that work at home? You also did not ask about organized practices. I tend to go to 2-3 practices a month in addition to events so I don't do a lot at home. [Solo practice can be done at home, but not necessarily. Question 6 covered “organized” practices.] 

Suggestions for future surveys

 

Attitudes

Φ Tri. ~ Also, questions about when they started and why they continue to fence or why they quit may be interesting. May help determine any trends in attitudes.

Attraction

Φ Drach. ~ The survey is a great idea! I look forward to seeing some results later. I'd be very interested to know what made people start fencing. A question something along the lines of:' What attracted you to fencing in the SCA?'

e.g.:  1) Liking for swashbuckling movies/novels?
2) Previous experience in sports fencing?
3) Previous experience in steel re-enactment/boffer weapons/LARPs?
4) Interest in period fencing?
5) Social reasons - friends involved in fencing?
6) Want to fight and heavy weapons requires too much gear/expense/pain.
7) Like the garb and the attitude - want to look good and cut a dash?
8) Like late period?


Don't laugh at no 6! When I started fencing I was primarily intrested in armoured combat, it was mainly that the gear took so much getting together that I ended up doing more rapier! 1, 4 and 5 also apply to me.  ``Cernac

I laugh only at the responses that were meant to be amusing.  *smile of innocence*

Awards

Φ Atl. ~ Pretty cool survey. Only thing I couls suggest is for the SCA awards questuion, adding a bubble for barony level awards. otherwise those who may have a barony level award have to fill out none.  ``Keelin

Blades

Φ Anst. ~ [About the question on weapon forms] Might want to subdivide into heavy and light blades.

Φ Out. ~ An important data point for blade experience is what weapons are used / legal in your area: this reveals what choices are available (eg. an Eastern fencer may use epée, but may have chosen foil only - or may use epée anyway because nobody else uses foil, even though it is allowed. In modern Atenveldt, epées are effectively banned.)  ``Guillaume

Chatter

Φ Caid ~ I think you covered just about everything... but might have included a question about how much non SCA related topics where discussed at an SCA practice... lol

Cross-tab queries

Φ Art. ~ For future reference, would like to know how fencers in other kingdoms approach the Arte... modern martial sport, pure make-beleive fun, fun with an attempt at historical accuracy, or hard-core WMA re-creation.... would be nice to see that info in general, then broken down by kingdom. Would also be interesting to cross-reference that with years of SCA rapier experience, and highest title acheived in the SCA, no? Thanks for the survey!  ``Justin

Sounds like fun, but I'd need a lot of help with the database queries and dynamic pages.

Definitions

Φ Caid ~ For rev. 2 (if ever you do it) might want to look at either re-writing some of the questions or explaining what *you* mean by your terms (extranous talking, "authentic" (what period or does it matter?) stuff like that such as you did for "solo practice").  ``Grainne

Fencing experience (not just SCA)

Φ East ~ Nice survey, missing questions like how many years one has been fencing overall? (in my case it would be 9 mundanely and only 1.75 in the SCA) or prior to the SCA, have you had any experience fencing?  ``Pascual

Φ Tri. ~ It would be interesting to see how many people started out fencing outside the sca. that would take me back at least 20 years and competing at nationals with students going to the Junior Olimpics.

First blade learned

Φ Caid ~ One thing that wasn't addressed in your survey was which weapon form we started with. most people are given an epee first. However, in CAID, a few of us authorized in schlager first (myself included). But I think that the weapont hat we start with for training definitely says something about our future performance. I'm much better with schlager now than people who started fencing about the same time as I did. However, I have a few more bad habits than they do with it. For example, I think by fighting epee for longer first, fencers build up upper body strenght. I think that the horrible wind-up habit that I had to break was partly due tot he fact that I didn't have the strength to hold my sword out properly when I started....

Gender differences

Φ Tri. ~ I am interested in practice formats and the results in general. Possible questions regarding gender differences, perceived or real. more questions.  ``Cullen

One can read much about gender differences on the LadyRapier Yahoo group - and doubtless a blog/forum or two. More questions? Aren't shorter surveys are more successful? This one sure wasn't short, but at least I kept it to a single page. *snicker*

Inactive or retired, why?

Φ Atl. ~ You could ask people who are no longer active (like myself) why they stopped fighting.

Injury, calibration

Φ AEth. ~ I would have been interested in seeing injury/ouchies rates. I've sprained an ankle/knee twice and had 1 truly bad hit in a schlaeger melee. I would also be interested in hearing if people think their opponents often hit too hard, broken out by kingdom and gender.

Φ Tri. ~ Interesting survey. If you decide to do more like this in the future I would be interested in seeing what views are like across kingdoms regarding the amount of force that should be required for a good hit.  ``Silvain

I'd seen that sort of survey before and I wanted to offer something different. Also see below.

Location

Φ Atl. ~ Thanks, there are some really good questions on here, and I'm pretty interested in the results. It might not be a bad idea to include locale (or more specifically where do you practice) to get more of an idea of trends in fighting styles and practice styles.  ``Jean Claude

Φ West ~ I's a good thing. Perhaps a spot to identify current Kingdom and area of residence so that differences in culture can be identified. Inter kingdom anthropology is always fun.  ``Alail

I felt "area of residence" was too intrusive. Besides, how could it be standardized without specifically asking which group? "Current Kingdom" should have been there from the first, I added it later.

Local practices

Φ Caid ~ I think I'd be interested personally in knowing how big the local practice is, and how long they go, things like that. [Many people offered this information in their comments.]

Mindset

Φ Drach. ~ There should be more questions dealing with mindset. SCA fencing is very much like "diet combat" where the idea of combat is great, but many of the participants worry about getting hit, bruises, etc. This doesn't help fencing at all.  ``Raphael

More choices

Φ Caid ~ Pretty good, could be a little better. Doesn't cover all the real possibilities for answers. Sorry, I can't say too much. I didn't note specifics.  ``Dalen

More questions

Φ Tri. ~ Suggestions for future survey questions:


Thanks for the input. If someone was a Don/Doña/equivalent, I could get this from the awards section and/or (fairly often) in their answer for their SCA name. People also volunteered their cadet/student status. For this survey, years of SCA fencing experience is more useful to me than age. Besides, about 30% of the fencers/respondents were ladies... (Enough said?)

Oh, me got plenty comment on sidesword experiment and politics without even asking...

Maître Wallace from Atenveldt had already done more than one survey on injuries and blade breakage several years before. Notably, most of the respondents to his surveys were from the western kingdoms. Also, injuries and blade breakage are already reported and filed. I was looking to learn (and thence, share) other things about fencers.

Period masters

Φ East ~ Interesting. I could see it branching out into more focused areas for some of the questions. Such as "what period masters have you studied".  ``Brokk

Politics

Φ Atl. ~ Not too bad, there are some areas that might need some more gleaning of information. I'm curious as to how people feel about the politics in the game. Necessary evil? Un-necessary Evil? Makes it more real? What Politics? etc.  ``Gypsy Boy

“Religion”, pointed questions

Φ Out. ~ There is (perhaps wisely) no question on religion: do you believe epée or schläger is safer / better?  ``Guillaume

Yepper, that was intentional.

Φ Tri. ~ Interesting survey, but you might ask some more pointed questions if you are interested in promoting rapier in the SCA:)  ``Elric

Status

Φ Tri. ~ You should have the question about the stauts of the person taking the survey. If he/she is a Don, Dona, cadet, or the equilvants.  ``Lillian

The closest I wanted to come to that was the question on kingdom-level awards. Not all kingdoms have Dons and cadets — or their equivalents. Not all White-Scarf level awards come with a GoA.

Students

Φ Nor. ~ You might add a section on students.  ``Cy

The Teaching section

Φ An Tir ~ There might just be a general question of "Do you teach? & possibly define the levels you teach to (beginners, some advanced technique, immersement in a particular master, etc.  ``Mughain

Φ Anst. ~ Is question 17 broken?  ``Doré

Φ Caid ~ Question 17 didn't include the option "Enjoy Teaching" or "Regularly volunteer". Question 18 didn't include "poor at teaching" (something appliable to drafted teachers.  ``Johann

My thinking was: if someone was at all successful with teaching, they enjoyed it, or did it with "reluctance". "Getting by" was the response for lowest success rating, which could be further qualified in the comment box. The section structure made sense to me at the time, but I learned that it's confusing to most.

Read more criticism on this section. (Q 17,18)

Why

Φ East ~ Interesting concept. When you get back to the "what do you fence for" question, please consider tying your questions to the "sca archetype" paradigm. [I should learn more about that paradigm first.]

Mostly compliments...

 

Æthelmearc

Φ Great idea!  ``Illadore
Φ Lenghthy! Best of luck with your efforts.  ``Corwin
Φ Well done I can't wait to see your findings.
Φ Interesting--but I am really new to fencing.

Φ I hope you have fun at KWAR! I'm looking forward to seeing the results.  ``Miguel

Φ Thanks for the comments boxes... otherwise I'd have had to return a mostly blank survey, being a newbie to fencing.  ``Miriel

Φ I am unsure of what conclusions you can reach with this. I see a few possibilities but I'm positive people will argue with the conclusions.  ``Ivan

Φ There are some interesting questions here, and I think you've got a large enough sample to make some accurate summaries of fencing in the SCA. (Depends if most of your respondents are from the same kingdom, though...)  ``Jean

Some kingdoms were indeed better represented than others...

An Tir

Φ Cool idea.
Φ Interested in seeing hte results.  ``Cormac
Φ Good questions. Thought-provoking.  ``Laurin
Φ Why is speed such a factor in good?  ``Gabrielle

Read about my views on skill and speed.

Φ Good Survey. Hope to see the results!
Φ Great idea, I hope you put out more like this...
Φ A well thought out survey. Lots of good questions.  ``Caiaphas
Φ Thanks for compiling this, can't wait to see the results.  ``Draven
Φ Thanks for putting it together. Can't wait to see the results!  ``Juana

Φ Thank you for the time and effort to compose this survey. I will me interested to see the results.

Φ Made me really look at my own fencing and pull it apart in a way that I haven't done before. I hope that you have gotten some good responses...and I'm looking forward to seeing the results later this year:)  ``Luaithrenn

As everyone can now see, I received a treasure hoard of responses.

Ansteorra

Φ Thank you for asking.  ``Jacques
Φ Nice survey, thank you.  ``Chiara
Φ Good survey. worth my time filling it out.  ``Pieter

Atendveldt

Φ Nice job.  ``Lann-Valdis
Φ Good idea see you at KWAR.  ``Ryan
Φ Neat. ... Thanks for the opportunity.  ``Rurik
Φ I like it- I'd be interested in seeing the results.  ``Senan
Φ I'll be interested to see what you come up with.  ``Wallace
Φ I hope this helps you in what ever goal you have for this project.  ``Sebastiana

Artemisia

Φ Nope.
Φ It will be interesting to read the results.  ``KyneWynn
Φ Pretty good, good luck. I look forward to the final postings.  ``Sionainn

Atlantia

Φ Good idea.
Φ Good survey.
Φ That was fun :)  ``Costanca
Φ Good luck in your research!
Φ Thanks for doing this survey. I appreciate it.  ``Royce
Φ Interesting. I look forward to seeing the results.  ``Renard
Φ This was very cool. I look forward to seeing the results.  ``Briana
Φ An enjoyable exercise ~ and thought provoking. Thank you!  ``Duncan
Φ Thanks for going to the trouble. i would like to see the results.  ``Rufus
Φ Thanks for doing this! Great job. Be interested to hear the results.
Φ Nice to see the surveey. hope it helps the fencing world a little more.

Φ I'll be interested in the results Yves. Way to take the initiative in putting this together!  ``Gunther

Φ Cool survey, sool idea. I like the recent initiatives to improve communication, and fencing in general. Hopefully people will begin to change some of their attitudes as well.  ``Marcus

Φ Interesting survey, I look forward to the final compiled results. We have a come along way since the days when we had only 8 or so authorixzed rapier fighter in the kingdom.

Φ I think that you have done an excellent job with this survey. It is well thought out, and you have given reasonable choices that are well bounded, with the opportunity to expound further where we wish to.  ``Nikolai    [*smile*]

Caid

Φ Nope.  ``Bethia
Φ It's good someone's doing this.  ``Leonarda
Φ Very nicely done Yves! Good stuff!
Φ Good idea, please post the general results to the list.  ``Eogan
Φ Thanks for collecting this info. I look forward to your results.

Φ I think you asked some interesting questions. Good luck with your survey. I'll be very interested to hear what comes out of it.

Φ I thank you for taking to time to do this survey and compile all the data. It must be a huge undertaking. I hope you find all the answers rewading and may they spark a truly interesting round table discusion at KWAR.  ``Colwyn

Huge? Maybe. Certainly labor-intensive for a number of months. I hope people think it was worth the wait and worth using. My class at KWAR was a bit lackluster — I didn't plan enough for it. I think (and hope) that there will be MUCH better discussion as more people read all these results and comments.

Drachenwald

Φ Excellent idea and nicely done.  ``Kári
Φ The results should be interesting... :)  ``Acarin

Φ Great survey. I'm not expecting to make it to KWAR this year. Any chance I could get a copy of your findings?  ``Muirghein

Here they are... *smile*

Ealdormere

Φ Bravo!  ``Sebastian
Φ Great idea, and some intersting food for thought.  ``Albrecht

East

Φ Screwy ....   ``Richild

*sigh* ... I learned my lesson well, ya can't please everyone ...

Φ Good survey.  ``Jeanne
Φ Not sure what you hope to glean from this.  ``Brita
Φ Good efort hope it helps generate skill advancement.

Φ Nice survey I guess. I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for and am curious (the engineer/anaylst in me speaks :) )  ``Astridr

Φ I hope this survey will bring us one step closer to proving to the BOD how important fencing is to many SCAdians, and how it is becoming a major part of the culture, so that someday we may become a society-wide activity.  ``Domenego

Lochac

Φ Fine.
Φ Good idea.  ``Gregory
Φ Great. Look forward to seeing some statistics.  ``Hanbal
Φ This is a great survey! :)  I think the info contained will be helpful in your discussions at KWAR! :)  ``Marc

Thanks. Actually, *finally* getting these pages done should help promote a LOT more discussion.

Meridies

Φ Very interesting.
Φ Thanks for taking the time to do this.

Midrealm

Φ Thanks.
Φ Well done.
Φ :) Mostly painless.  ``Molly
Φ Not bad - Good luck.  ``Grimkirk
Φ Can't wait to see the results!
Φ I really thought it was a well done survey.  ``Lydia
Φ I'm not sure how much use my answers will be.
Φ Pretty well thought out. I'll be interested in seeing how the totals fall.  ``Catalin

Φ A fine survey. I am impressed by the well thought-out questions, especially the Rank definitions. You made me think a lot about myself and what I do, and I've come to realize some things from taking this survey, thank you! Thanks for all the comment boxes. Hope my ramblings may be helpful.  ``Kriemhilt

*smile* ... *swoon*

Northshield

Φ Cool idea :)  ``Cy
Φ Thanks for the interest.
Φ I am intrested in seeing the results!
Φ Good idea, I'll be interested in the results.
Φ Excellent questions. I'm curious about the results.  ``Fiskr
Φ I thought it was pretty decent, am very interested to see the results.  ``Gabrielle
Φ I'd be interested to see what sort of conclusions you draw from all this.  ``Maisy

Other pages on here do have my observations at the top. I wouldn't call any of them "conclusions"...

Outlands

Φ Good idea, wish I could come to KWAR.  ``Doring
Φ Looking forward to seeing your results.  ``Christian
Φ Great idea. I can't wait to here the results at KWAR!
Φ What class are you teaching? I would be interested in attending.  ``Seuilla

Actually I did two classes at the KWAR in 2003. One of them was called "Yves' Big SCA Survey #1 Roundtable" and the other was "Instructional Tools for SCA Fencing". Thanks to all those who attended.

Φ It made me think seriously about my needing to initate more fights as opposed to facing the same old series of combatants.  ``Jalid

Φ This survey is interesting and fairly comprehensive. There are lots of comment spaces, allowing more detail / alternative answers.  ``Guillaume

Φ Let me know how your survey turns out, and feel free to e-mail me anytime about anything fencing......its always good to make a new friend. [Thanks, I think so too.]

Trimaris

Φ Neat idea.
Φ Great idea on the survey!!!  ``Melangell
Φ Good luck, let me know how it goes.
Φ Very interesting and entertaining. Thank you.  ``Cillian
Φ Thanks for the chance for imput... hope it helps.
Φ Hope this is for the betterment of the game and society. good luck. best wishes.
Φ This survey is a great idea, and I am looking forward to seeing the results! Thank you!  ``Thorunn

Φ I think it is a good idea. I think there are some problems with fencing that might find an answer in a forum that is more annonymous than posing the question in person or on an email list. It's funny how you can be labled a trouble maker when you question the status quo.

West

Φ Interesting.
Φ Mostly very good ... thanks.
Φ Thanks for taking the time to do this and hopefully apply it for the good of the Kingdom.  ``Alessandra

I'm not sure what I could do to help the West specifically, but maybe someone out there can...

Thank you everyone for the kind words - and other feedback... you're all quite welcome.

Again, I do appreciate you giving me your time to take the survey and read the results.

p.s. I had a good time at the KWAR in Denver (2003)...

Question 28
Skill rank
No next
question

 

 

 

Your feedback is most welcome!

 

My nifty email form stopped working ... but you can still send me email if you would like to.

Original page posted: October 18, 2004. Last tweaked: July 1, 2006.

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