Results and comments from the Aug/Sep 2003 survey.

	Ýves’ big SCA rapier survey #1 ~ Teaching
	Updated: May 24, 2005

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Policy blurb

By default, authors of comments sent in response to this survey are named only by their permission. Usually, other people mentioned in a comment are named only with their permission as well. Each comment represents only what the author typed in for the survey at the time.

» This survey was conducted during August-September 2003. Things change over time. «

Some comments were edited for content. Certain harsh words have been changed for your amusement. Opinions expressed by the authors do not necessarily reflect those of the surveyor.

To get YOUR name listed with YOUR comments, just give me permission. See the e-mail button and information at the bottom of the page. Let me know your SCA name and kingdom (as of Aug/Sep 2003), and I'll add the attribution to your entries.

# of Responses
by Kingdom
 
AEth.  = 34/235
Anst.  = 36/240
An Tir = 56/347
Art.   = 12/124
Aten.  = 27/460
Atl.   = 60/425
Caid   = 49/400
Drach. = 21/76
Eald.  = 12/77
East   = 46/480
Loch.  = 22/120
Mer.   = 27/140
Mid.   = 52/640
Nor.   = 25/164
Out.   = 26/214
Tri.   = 46/237
West   = 14/70
Unk.   = 2

The gist

The intent of Questions 17 and 18 was this: If you don't teach, why not? (Inexperience? No interest?) Otherwise, (since you do teach), do you do so only because no one else will or because there's no one else around? As a teacher, how "successful" are you?

The 2:1 ratio of teachers to non-teachers in the survey was much higher than I thought it would be.

Question 17

If you do not teach SCA fencing, which of these apply to you, if any?

Total number of responses: 567.

KEY

Yes: Number of "yes" responses.
Per: Yes ÷ 567.

Total: 147 or about 36% do not teach SCA fencing.
 

Question 18

If you do teach SCA fencing, does this apply to you?

 
I call these "reluctant" teachers.

KEY

Yes: Number of "yes" responses.
Per: Yes ÷ total responses only for Question 18.

Rate your success as a teacher of SCA fencing.

About 72% of the responses are from people who indicated with this question that they teach SCA fencing. Of those, just over 1/4 are "reluctant" (regarding the first part of the question).

By the way, I added the "cover my expenses" text during the survey. And yes, I know, I know, the design of this section was poor. People have already told me. Read on.

The comments

Note: Any remarks in the comments below from Yves look like this.

The topic headings below include: Travel, Studying, Students, Other combat, Goal/Progress, Enjoyment, Compensation, Class, Little fish, Big fish, and Vents.

Other comments on teaching are on another page.
See the links at the bottom of this page.
 

Choice picks

Φ Caid ~ [My local fencing practice] can vary depending on my mood. It's getting better as my skill improves. It can also depend on the teacher. A good teacher is vital to a productive practice. A good teacher wants to be there to teach, not just to play.

(Being there to play is just fine. Just be honest about it. Otherwise when you grudgingly agree to teach, you make the newbie feel like they're cutting into your playtime. The attitude, however mild, really impacts the overall effectiveness of the practice.)

He/She recognizes the skill level of their student and adapts the lesson accordingly. He/She should also not be afraid to rein in the enthusiastic newbie and assign drills vs. throwing them into sparring head first. Sparring is good, but should be saved for the end of a practice, after the fencer has been given the minimum in warm up & drill.

For more advanced fencers, this is obviously not an issue. Also, I get more from a practice when it focuses on one form (Sword & Dagger, Sword & Baton, Case, etc) instead of bouncing between a bunch of forms. I can make progress and feel like I've accomplished something by the end of a practice.  ``Iliana

The comment above was sent in response to another question (#26).
Since the focus is on the teacher, I moved it here.

Φ AEth. ~ While I truly believe that there is room enough in the SCA for all levels of play and dedication in our fencing program I would like to see two large changes.  1. We need a higher and more consistent level of training and  2. we need to stop sacrificing excellence on the altar of inclusion.  ``Christian

Φ An Tir ~ I also get compliments on my teaching. Plus, I have had people offer or ask me how much I charge to teach and have been willing to pay something. The answer, of course, is that don't charge anything. I do this for fun, I love it and when I teach it gives me someone new to play with.  ``Caiaphas

Vents

Φ AEth. ~ Local marshalet not very encuriging with newbeees lots of talk but not a lot of fencing at pratices.

Φ Aten. ~ I'm lucky to have a talent and knoweldge that people want. I'm glad I can help increase their knowledge. Now if the rules would let us use it!  ``Senan

Φ Mid. ~ I THINK THIS QUESTION IS UNFAIR I WOULD LOVE TO TEACH BUT I HAVE GREAT TIME RESRICTIONS DUE TO MUNDANE LIFE.

Φ Nor. ~ I rarely have time to teach.  ``Rodrigo

Φ Out. ~ I taught the basics on a regular basis at our Baronial practice for nine years. I enjoy teaching, although I stopped cold turkey last summer, since I hadn't had a real break from doing so in far too long. I may never go back to teaching regularly in a group setting, since it was too easy for others to let me do it and my own fencing suffered.  ``Rivka

Φ [Withheld] ~ I switched to [adjacent kingdom] though I do still live in [home kingdom]. They're more fun for me, and they welcome my previous experience. I feel that my [home kingdom] is unkind to newcomers in fencing, and more so when they have previous fencing experience.

Available

Φ An Tir ~ I am willing to teach, though there are no new fencers in my area to teach.

Φ Atl. ~ I am willing and able to teach anyone, anytime, anywhere but, am not actively sought after as a teacher.

Big fish

Φ An Tir ~ I take on new fighters because I can't stand to see somone who has interest get turned away or discouraged that no one encouraged them. I think fencing can be used by anyone, even somone who is disasbled, and belive that it should be open to all.  ``Samuale

Φ An Tir ~ I teach in the instructor-barren northern March of Tir Righ, and my students are not only eager to absorb all I learn, they also study strategems and tactics, so what they may lack individually, they make up for it by being one of the best non-RBG units in Tir Righ...I'd pit them as a unit against anyone.  ``Gwydion

Φ Aten. ~ I have taught in many kingdoms when I was merchanting and if I ever visited a Kingdom more than once the fighters would hunt me down to teach them or send students my way.  ``Sebastiana

Φ Atl. ~ People gladly come to me for lessons.  ``Duncan

Φ I do teaching in the SCA and with modern foil/epee fencing. I suppose that last box you have is reserved for Senan :).  ``Gunther

Φ Atl. ~ As the only MoF and one of only 2 authorized fencers in the area, I have to try to teach if the other interested people are to get a chance.

Φ Atl. ~ I am largely retired to a local role in teaching by my own choice. Perhaps the addition of a choice for "my fellow teachers direct students to me for certain types of instruction when I visit practices" would be appropriate. It fits me more.

Φ Caid ~ I've done a fair amount of teaching outside of rapier. Most of my SCA rapier teaching has been because there is no one else to do it.

Φ Caid ~ I'm in the uncomfortable position of being a couple months ahead of my crew, so I often go to practices with a good teacher and a couple new people. I then parrot what he did with the new people to my own group.  ``Johann

Φ Drach. ~ Mostly I teach Marshalling....

Φ Eald. ~ I'm the only woman fencer with any experience at all. I teach new girls mostly or men who perfer one on one teaching styles.

Φ East ~ I teach because I love to and learn while teaching... I have had ogres/scarves ask for pointers after playing...  ``Alain

Φ East ~ I am often pointed to as someone for people to seek teaching from, and my primary students are beginning to get "Hey, you're one of [name]'s, aren't you."   ``Ian

Φ Mid. ~ I end up teaching mostly in our home area where we don't have many fencers.  ``Catalin

Φ Mid. ~ I am just reaching the leval where I am comfortable teaching, and now, as group marshall, there is an expectation that I will be available to teach.

Little fish

Φ AEth. ~ There are few enough SCA fencers in my local barony that we tend to "informally" group-teach newcomers- each of us handling different aspects.  ``Po

Φ An Tir ~ I do help a little bit with comments and aid to brand new fencers, because I can teach basics, however all in all I don't feel really competent enough to teach.  ``Tristan

Φ Atl. ~ Evidently I'm good enough to have people say "Go have him show you that" but I still feel like I have no place showing anyone anything. :P  ``Dante P

Φ Atl. ~ I usually am asked to work with the newer fighters because (I suspect) I am a non-threatening and patient teacher, although I don't feel I know enough to be teaching.

Φ Caid ~ I just teach people when it comes up. I give advice. I try to help correct things I see are wrong. Its all friendly. I don't actively hold classes or anything. I get some compliments, but I'm not a Don or anything.  ``Dalen

Φ Caid ~ I should do this for another decade before I would be qualified. But I'm here, I teach. I lean heavily on my own teacher for advice (I travel about an hour each way twice a week to study, but the other locals are unwilling to do that).  ``David

Φ Out. ~ There are too many higher-ranking fencers in this barony for me to be of much value.

Φ Out. ~ I really do not tend to feel quailfied to teach but being as I do get requests and have helped several midlevel fencers I guess I'm good at it.  ``Diana

Class

Φ Drach. ~ I currently do more one on one teaching, but I am working on some classes both in research of the sword and practice. Hopefully, within the next year, I will be prepared to hold classes.  ``Muirghein

Φ Mid. ~ I put together one of the first "kingdom" rapier teaching event in the Middle Kingdom: the "Middle Kingdom Academy of Defense" (MKAOD); it is now a 2-day annual event that is generally well-known in the kingdom and especially among rapier combatants.  ``Alexander

Φ Out. ~ I often work with newer fencers, but I do not have a "curriculum." I would feel more comfortable if I did (to make sure I don't miss anything). I have no rapier "classes" ready to go, although I do for dance and illumination. (IOW - I do all right one on one, but have no formal plan for any class, even though I think I should.) Finally, I like working with people individually, but I don't like teaching classes. I do teach some A & S (and mundane) classes, because somebody has to, and could teach Rapier classes, but rarely need to. Maybe I would teach more if I were invited (and yes, if I taught more, I'd probably get more invitations).  ``Guillaume

Coach

Φ An Tir ~ I'm more of a coach than a teacher. I don't have any sort of pedagogy, but I can provide good, constructive criticism, suggestions for improvement, and recommendations for specific drills that people can use to improve their fight.  ``Ruaidhri

Φ An Tir ~ There are requests as my style is less based on period manuals, though I do make occasional reference. I consider my self as a coach in sport-like terms. To assist someone in bettering their technique and pointing out bad habits and making them aware of them. A refining process.  ``Vincent

Communication

Φ Aten. ~ I'm not very good about putting into words what's in my head, so I prefer not to teach.  ``Bethia

Φ West ~ I have, and only will, teach when I have knowledge that seems valuable but no one else seems to be able to teach. I am still learning how to get my ideas across.  ``Staffan

Compensation

Φ AEth. ~ People have paid me to teach. not much but something.  ``Lodovick

Φ AEth. ~ I've never promoted myself out of kingdom. I've never asked for money.  ``Ivan

Φ Anst. ~ I have not accepted money but I have had others pay for my trip to come teach them.  ``Doré

Φ Art. ~ I get paid outside of the SCA.

Φ Caid ~ I have been paid to teach before.

Φ East ~ I get paid to teach fencing outside of the SCA, therefore I don't teach in the SCA where everything is expected to be given away for free.  ``Armand

Φ West ~ If sending me tickets to Alaska and providing room/board counts that is... I have not accepted monetary payment.  ``Nytshaed

Deferral

Φ Atl. ~ I'll gladly step forward to teach but will willingly defer the task to someone who I beleive is both a better fencer "and" a better teacher.  ``Royce

Φ [Withheld] ~ None of the above appear to apply to me. I teach when asked to teach, in the past I taught many and taught them well (some of my students became quite notable on the list).

“Donmakers”

Φ Art. ~ I've been teaching for a lot of years now. . . my biggest frustration is that by virtue of living in a college town, I teach someone then they move on, and I start all over with new people . . I guess though, that could be considered planting seeds, and my students will enrich the Knowne World wherever they go. Lately, I have had a tendency to wait to teach someone until I know they are really committed to learning. I've spent an awful lot of time teaching, then a month or so later the person has lost all interest, maybe it's selfish, but I only have so much time and energy to expend. It is a thrill though to teach someone and see them eventually outshine you . . . several of my former students are now Don's.  ``KyneWynn

Φ Tri. ~ I am a teacher. I rarely am I able to beat a young athletic person that is a swordsman or woman but if they know nothing of the art I can create a fine swordsperson. Not braging, it is why I wear a white scarf. It is also the most fun for me. After all being a fighter is one thing, creating them, well that is "the bomb" for me.

Read more about "donmakers". (Q 28)

Dons and White Scarves

Φ Caid ~ WS's generally get invitations to teach...  ``Alexander K

Φ Tri. ~ As the newest Dona in my knogdom, I expect to have more invitations that I can answer.  ``Francis

Enjoyment

Φ Aten. ~ I do get compliments and have gone back to Ansteorra to help teach at rapier academies or at the larger periodic rapier practices...I love to teach and am very passionate about it.  ``Lann-Valdis

Φ Atl. ~ I enjoy teaching those who really have a desire to learn this as an art.

Φ Caid ~ Teaching is one of the major rewards I get from SCA rapier. However I teach individuals mostly, not classes so the "invitations to teach" are not exactly applicable.  ``Grainne

Φ Caid ~ I teach because I enjoy it. Because I enjoy it, my students seem to enjoy it. I have received many compliments about how I teach and, after one demo, was asked if I was a teacher in real life. (I'm not, I just love sharing what I do.)  ``Kelan

Φ Drach. ~ At first I was uncomfortable teaching fencing because those who had trained me had been fencing for longer than I had been alive. Once I started doing it I found that I had a knack for it and a love of passing on what was given to me.  ``Raphael

Φ East ~ At this stage of the game, I find more enjoyment in teaching, than in playing or in competing.  ``Brokk 

Φ Nor. ~ I enjoy the teachin aspect, especially with the new fighters. There are many others who are better than I in many aspects of fencing, but I am the best in our group with buckler and one of two who are excellent observers and am able to tell a fighter what I see so they can do better.  ``David

Φ Tri. ~ I teach because I like to.

Φ [Withheld] ~ I love teaching, especially SCA fencing. I became a marshall because people are more open to learning from marshalls. I have taught gobs of people and some have surpassed me in skill. That's a compliment on me, and I'm just so proud of them when they do well.

Survey gripes

My thinking when I did the survey was — if someone teaches more than a few times, and they have any success with it, OF COURSE they like it; it's a given... and if someone isn't a teacher, just skip the question.

Φ An Tir ~ In question 17, you don't have a place for people who like to teach. I like to teach.

Φ Anst. ~ Question 18...you have no idea if I am a teacher and it doesn't apply...

Φ Aten. ~ Your missing one. I enjoy teaching. All of the last four apply to me. I get compliments, invitations in and out of Kingdom, and have been given room and board to teach.

Φ Atl. ~ Question 17 should have more options...like: I teach regularly...I've just started teaching....I plan to stick with teaching as I like it. All of these are true for me.  ``Marcus

Φ Caid ~ What about People who like to teach?  ``Arabella

Φ Mid. ~ I don't like the selections available in question 17 -- I love teaching and have done it throughout an entire day simply because I wanted to.  ``Purple

Read more comments on mindset. (Q 16)

Goal, progress

Φ Aten. ~ When I'm good enough to teach, I'll gladly take any students - be as kind to them as my teachers are to me.

Φ Atl. ~ I would LOVE to teach and would like to become a marshal as soon as is practical.

Φ Caid ~ Love to be able to teach one day... Just... don't quite know enough right now.  ``Leonarda

Φ Caid ~ I consider myself too new still to impart my small, meager knowlege to others. I have helped others teach and enjoy helping others as I was helped when I first began. If anyone can benifit from my small knowledge than I am only to happy to help. I look forward to the time when my skill and knowledge are broad enough that I can ably assist other newbies.  ``Colwyn

Φ Eald. ~ I'd like to teach, but lack the technical expertise that will come with time.

Φ East ~ I would like to be a better teacher - I need to attend more classed so I can pilfer some teaching skills from folks I respect.  ``Fei-Hong

Φ East ~ I'm new to teaching, and teach the beginners below me, so I can't really rate my teaching yet. I hope someday to be a fencing master, and teach professionally.  ``Domenego

Φ Loch. ~ My teaching is untrained and comes from my own understanding of what I do and what the student does. It leads to a large variation in success and enjoyment of the student. I'm getting there.  ``Gregory

Φ Mid. ~ I don't consider myself to be a good teacher, but I'm getting better.  ``Toshikage

Φ Out. ~ As in all things in the SCA, it's something that I'm trying to improve on.  ``Jalid

History

Φ Caid ~ I also teach the history of the technology of our weapons and equipment. If an advanced student wants to work on their kit, then I would hope they were sent to me.  ``Njall

Φ Tri. ~ I teach my students to be aware of the period probability of grappling, pommels, hilts, fists, elbows, knees, etc. We do not practice them but stress reality of the type of combat. I do not teach dueling, rather weapons use in every day life in the 16th century.  ``Cullen

Read more about history and realism in fencing. (Q 2,3)

Lighter blades first

Φ Atl. ~ I like starting new fighters with foil then moving them onto epee, then eventually schlager. (Di Grassi admonishment to start with the lightest weapon possible, learn your technique & develop your control & musculature, THEN move to a heavier weapon. It works.  ``Duncan

Motive

Φ Atl. ~ I teach so i will have fencers around whose style i enjoy working with.  ``Rois

Φ Tri. ~ I have taught for years mostly to get others to play with. I prefer teaching to compitition.

No interest

Φ Caid ~ I have no interest in teaching anything at all in the SCA.

Off duty

Φ Eald. ~ My mundane job is teaching, so I attempt to steer clear of it within this context-- I need a break from doing it all day long as a career, and do not fence in order to 'teach'. I fence because it is fun.

Other combat

Φ Drach. ~ I teach a lot, mostly due to my 8.5 years of heavy fighting, which in many ways translates well into any sword fighting style.  ``Gerhardt

Φ East ~ Not the whole story. I teach sword combat, NOT fencing. Big difference. I teach period technique but not just that of the sall d'armes. I teach staying alive on the battlefield or in the back alley. Not for everyone, and some don't like it. My students rarely win against modern collegiate trained fencers, but in a brawl, we are on top.

Φ Nor. ~ I may have lack of experience in Rapier, but my martial arts background allows me to teach basic rapier mechanics to those less experienced than me when no other teacher is available.

Φ Out. ~ Because of my years as a heavy fighter, and my training techniques with heavy. I do quite well with a buckler. Several people ask me to teach them how to use the buckler.

Other fencing experience

Φ Anst. ~ I not only teach in the SCA but I am a certified fencing coach for the USFCA and the AAI.  ``Pieter

Φ East ~ I did have a semester of mundane foil in college (yes, a semester is not long, but it was at Penn State, with the 2 coaches from its fencing team), so I had a pretty good grounding in the basics of drilling, footwork, etc. Although I don't have a lot of experience in SCA fencing, I can still tell if someone needs to work on their distance, footwork, point control, calibration, etc, and can tell them that much. Not that I don't need to work on those same things sometimes, but some days I do have a clue.  ``Lilia

Φ West ~ My SCA rapier experience is very limited but I have years of olympic and SCA heavy combat to draw upon. Rapier is just a different combat weapons form ... balance, range, movement, prescence, control, focus, etc. are all constants.

Paradox?

Φ Caid ~ I am a bit of a paradox, I used to teach professionally; [...] I know how to impart knowledge to others. I am also very observant, I can see what works and what doesn't. I'm just not skilful at actually DOING what works. This means that, while totally new fighters will take advise from me, once they surpass me in skill, and anyone who has seen me in a tournament, they do not think I have anything to teach them. Being female doesn't help much either.  ``Meala

Physiology

Φ Atl. ~ Going to fencing coaches college at the olympic training center in colorado springs is a good place to learn physiology that applies to all forms of combat, light or heavy.translate that info into the use of historically accurate weaponry and you can come up with a good fighting school.  ``Rufus

Rusty

Φ AEth. ~ I haven't taught in a while, and now I need to refresh myself before I could comfortably teach again.

Selective

Φ Anst. ~ I am extremely selective about teaching.  ``Joachim

Φ Mid. ~ SCA rapier is the only fencing I have ever done. I am more comfortable working with some one who has had some instruction prior to coming/being sent to me.  ``Gilebert

Φ Tri. ~ I tend to teach more advanced students, My ability to teach new students is limited mostly by my lack of patience.  ``Mikael

Service

Φ Atl. ~ 2 years of experience and one of the more experienced fighters in the barony (at least that fights and regularly comes to practice)? I don't like teaching, but I will.  ``Costanca

Φ Out. ~ I regularly teach and reinstruct on several of the forms I know and study, and I help others with their research into new forms (like Jalid's Curved Blade project...)  ``Antoine

Students

Φ Anst. ~ I am a left handed fencer. That is why I get invitations to teach, to help other left handed new comers, not because I posses a high level of skill. I am good with new comers and I love encouraging them in all matters. Left handed fighters are lost all too quickly because we do not have any teachers.  ``Chiara

Φ Anst. ~ I was a frequent teacher at Ansteorran Academy of the Rapiers on both cloak and case. I also was the lead student for many years at my Don's private fighter practice, where I would assist in teaching the other students. In public practices and at events I would frequently work with and teach anyone who asked.  ``Henri

Φ Atl. ~ I have three serious students. Nothing to brag about.

Φ Atl. ~ I have not taught in quite a few years due to inactivity on my part. I don't feel my current skill level warrents it. When I did teach, I would train with anyone that approached the art in a safe, interested manner.  ``Cristobal

Φ Mer. ~ At present, I do not have any SCA fencing students. I have a plethora of USFA students who would like to learn SCA but are not yet 18.  ``Sigurd

Φ Tri. ~ A teacher shouldnt search for acclaim. His or her studants should reflect his/her teachings. if they do well, thats reward enough.

Φ Tri. ~ I do not have a student of my own, But am a First Cadet and assist my don in teaching the other Cadets and students he has.

Studying, learning, teaching

Φ AEth. ~ Studying and teaching swordplay is as important to me as actually fighting.  ``Christian

Φ Caid ~ I teach what I can to those who have less experience than me, and try to learn from those with more experience. Sometimes that's the same person but different skills and techniques.

Φ Caid ~ With only 1 year experience, I wound up teaching in my new barony as the only authorized rapier fighter, and now have almost 20 authorized students. Teaching is more about facilitating others to learn what you're learning than about knowing a lot.  ``Curteis

Φ Loch. ~ I find that teaching reinforces my learning.  ``Dameon

Travel

Φ Aten. ~ I teach as often as possible. In fact I make an effort to travel my kingdom practices as much as possible to offer my services teaching those who don't have many teachers available.  ``Ryan

Φ Mid. ~ My job has me traveling all over the country. While I am not the best of [my local group], I am willing to share what I have been taught with other groups I visit.

Φ Nor. ~ I don't think I'm a great teacher, and others do a better job. However, there aren't many people who will travel to smaller groups in my area all the time, so a few palces have asked me to teach, and have been very thankful for what ever I can do.

Φ [Withheld] ~ The KRM and their staff marshals should travel the kingdom and hold workshops throughout the year. It should be in their official duties to visit each group at least once during a year so that the smaller and more remote groups do not go unsupported.

Your feedback is most welcome!

My nifty email form stopped working ... but you can still send me email if you would like to.

Original page posted: October 18, 2004. Last tweaked: July 1, 2006.

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