Results and comments from the Aug/Sep 2003 survey.

	Ýves’ big SCA rapier survey #1 ~ Mindset
	Updated: May 24, 2005

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Policy blurb

By default, authors of comments sent in response to this survey are named only by their permission. Usually, other people mentioned in a comment are named only with their permission as well. Each comment represents only what the author typed in for the survey at the time.

» This survey was conducted during August-September 2003. Things change over time. «

Some comments were edited for content. Certain harsh words have been changed for your amusement. Opinions expressed by the authors do not necessarily reflect those of the surveyor.

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# of Responses
by Kingdom
 
AEth.  = 34/235
Anst.  = 36/240
An Tir = 56/347
Art.   = 12/124
Aten.  = 27/460
Atl.   = 60/425
Caid   = 49/400
Drach. = 21/76
Eald.  = 12/77
East   = 46/480
Loch.  = 22/120
Mer.   = 27/140
Mid.   = 52/640
Nor.   = 25/164
Out.   = 26/214
Tri.   = 46/237
West   = 14/70
Unk.   = 2

The gist

Based on the responses, many more people than I'd thought said they perform "acts of chivalry/courtesy" in rapier bouts and many more people than I'd thought also said that they make an effort to be entertaining on the field.

I realize that I could have configured this question much better. Even so, it evoked MANY good comments.

Question 16. Mind set

How do you prefer to play? Check all that apply, if any.

Total number of responses: 567.

KEY

Yes: Number of "yes" responses.
Per: Yes ÷ total responses.
 

What is "no quarter" anyway?

Take no prisoners. It can also include not showing friendliness toward your enemy. For us, this certainly includes not giving up the use of your own limb to make a bout more even.

The comments

Note: Any remarks in the comments below from Yves look like this.

The topic headings below are (in reverse order): Quarter, Persona/Period, Melees & tourneys, Martial art, Looking good, Duel of honor, Demos, Danger/reality/safety, Calibration & "sharp" blades, and Best.

Other comments on this topic are on separate pages.
See the links at the bottom of this page.

Choice picks

Φ Aten. ~ I like to play with the mind set of what would the blade do to me if it actually hit me. For instance I will take a flat blade to the head as a kill since if a balde did hit me in the head it would probable stun me long enough for my opponet to run me though. I will also so concede a fight if I am legged for the reason that any sense able person would leave me and come back with a gun or pole-arm to finish me off.

Φ Atl. ~ A good fight, for me, is when you've found that spot where fighting feels like dancing, and fencing becomes beautiful and graceful to watch.  ``Rois

Φ Mer. ~ When "lay-on" is called I will be all business. I have no problem with folks who want to play and be funny/silly. After all I learned from the best of them. That is not my game. When the fight is over I want to know what happen and allowed the blade to touch me and make sure that my opponenet had a fun time.  ``Leon

Φ Mid. ~ My mind set is that of a period courtier, learning and practicing a martial art, and testing my abilities against my comrades. Within that mindset, there is the possibility of injury (even from blunted weapons), and the possibility that these skills might someday be required for the earnest defense of my life (though I rather hope not!)  ``Christian

Best

Φ An Tir ~ I fight to win, I have fun while doing it. I beleive that I should give every person I face the best fight I can. If I lose, so be it, as long as I know I tried to the best of my ability I'm happy with it.

Φ Drach. ~ The main ingredient for me is to have fun, both myself and my opponent, and get a chance to exercise our skill to the utmost. For me the best bouts aren't the ones that are won swiftly with one lightning-fast strike, but the ones where the fencers are well-matched, enjoy themselves, and have time try out a range of movements and manouevers.  ``Guntram

Φ Out. ~ I want to play the best I can on a given day. I am there for the fun, and to improve my personal skill. With this sport, I just have an opponent.  ``Seuilla

Calibration & “sharp” blades

Φ AEth. ~ I like touch calibration-I like tip cuts.

Φ AEth. ~ Gently... the weapon is "sharp" so little actual force should be necessary. One of the reasons I'm attracted to fencing, with its "touch calibration" rather than rattan combat is that I would prefer not to be bruised (overmuch) and/or broken... I'm a free-lancer in real life, and work with my hands, so mostly dare not risk them too much.  ``Miriel

Φ An Tir ~ I tell my students to ALWAYS consider that the blades are sharp, and their job is to get out of the encounter alive.  ``Samuale

Φ An Tir ~ Even though the actual blades we use are blunted, the way that I treat them during combat is as if they are a real sharp blade and accept blows as such.  ``Duncan

Φ An Tir ~ While fighting, I support the someone could die approach, as it effects the movements used to kill you're opponent and the style you use. A modern style may help you win, but an authentic period style will help you kill in a duel.  ``Argan

Φ Aten. ~ Sharp or blunted blades is up to the scenario, but you should always assume a sharp blade. It keeps you on your toes.  ``Sebastiana

Φ Atl. ~ I play blunted blades if specifically called for (scenario or situation), otherwise I consider our weapons are sharpened.  ``Duncan

Φ Atl. ~ Depending upon the type of tournament, that attitude [the blades are blunt or blunted, no one is going to die] could change.  ``Briana

Φ Atl. ~ When I take the field I not only stay within the rules but within the spirit of the rules...I am holding a razor sharp rapier and only wearing a thin shirt and hose..to me a cut is a cut.

Φ Caid ~ First and foremost I try to play that the blades are sharp.  ``Leonarda

Φ Caid ~ The blades are sharp: I like the "you can accidentally kill-out an opponet" tournament we had at Crown Prints.  ``Johann

Φ Caid ~ SCA combat is re-creating tournament combat, so the whole concept of "dying" on the field is unauthentic and silly - it grew out of the birthday party mentality in 1966. Heavy-weapons combatants should yield, not "die" then magically rise and leave the field. The closest equivalent for rapier combat would be bouts to serious blood, So yes, the blades are sharp, and leaping on them is silly, but no-one should be "dying".  ``Felinah

Φ Caid ~ SCA fencers hit far too lightly and take hits far too lightly. It's like dancing without music. If we are attempting to recreate Renaissance combat, you have to realize that a rapier weighed the same as a Viking's sword; only the balance was slightly different. The way you kill an opponent is by running steel through them, not touching their outer garment with the point of their blade. My aim point on any opponent is six inches behind their backs -The idea of just leaning backward an inch to avoid a "killing" shot is just plain boneheaded. I would punish any student who attacked in such a noncommittal manner.  ``Vladimir

Φ Eald. ~ Regarding swords as blunt or sharp varies. My attitude at practice is either one, at events, I invariably think sharp.

Φ East ~ I like to treat the blades as if they were sharp but at the same time I know no one is going to die, (unless someone does something stupid).

Φ East ~ If the contact felt like it would cause me some damage, then I call the shot accordingly. Being from the East, there is a two-cut/limb to disable rule. However, if the cut is good enough on the first try, I'm disabled accordingly.  ``Maire

Φ Mid. ~ Act as if any blow were deadly, but don't worry that you'll kill anyone i.e. double kills are foolish, but don't get squeamish about gakking the other guy.  ``Kyrstyan

Φ Out. ~ Mentally the blades are always real.  ``Christian

Φ Tri. ~ Although I don't expect anyone to be injured, I call blows like they are leathally dangerous.  ``Francis

Φ Tri. ~ Though we don't actually play with sharp blades at my practice, we do play like it is for keeps.  ``Silvain

The response above was paraphrased.

Danger, reality, & safety

Φ AEth. ~ I consider myself a swordsman. In a _real_ fight, my life would be at stake. Although we are playing for fun, I am also training for that real fight that hopefully will never actually arrive.

Φ AEth. ~ I may have misunderstood this question. Do I prefer to use a real sword? I do not use real weapons, (every gun is loaded, never point a loaded gun at a person, never intentionally fire a gun at a person unless you intend to kill them) every sword is sharp... The rapiers we play with are not sharp.  ``Ivan

Φ An Tir ~ This is a dangerous sport, blades could get broken, then someone could die.

Φ An Tir ~ Safety first, authenticity second. This is for fun. Unfortunately, too many people have lost sight of that.  ``Caiaphas

Φ An Tir ~ When we play we are out to have fun but there is intent after all the swords are still metal and if things happen you have to except that you may get hurt.

Φ Drach. ~ Martial arts are for combat purposes. You pick up a sword to kill someone or to practice killing someone. — Its really that simple.  ``Raphael

Φ Loch. ~ The REAL expectation is that there is some danger (esp. if blade breaks), but I PLAY as if there is no danger.  ``Francois

Φ Out. ~ I checked the box about the blades being sharp and someone dying becuase I never want to forget that you really could get hurt doing this. And if you forget that, you might in fact get hurt or hurt someone else.  ``Peryn

Φ Tri. ~ Acolite of Don Giovanni on blow calling.

Φ Tri. ~ As far as I'm concerned... I KNOW I play differently than I would if my life was really on the line. As there is a VERY different mind-set here, I don't think it's possible for me to "take it seriously," but I don't blame those who do...  ``Melangell

Demos

Φ An Tir ~ Demo's are one thing, regular sparring is generally played to the "one point advantage" rule.

Φ Art. ~ At demos I go for entertainment value.

Φ Aten. ~ I have fought live steel and do know what it is like to be cut by a blade to it was accidental. But knowing that you can get cut is a thing that adds a lot to your mindset. It depends on the event or reason for the entertainment aspect..I mean if a demo for a period movie then will ham it up more and stuff.  ``Lann-Valdis

Φ Mid. ~ Depends on the situaiont. In demos or if playing in front of royalty, you're there for the amusement of the audience. If learning, you're there to do your best.

Φ Out. ~ It really depends on the situation, in tournaments I am out to win without any non-sense, I die well and try to be period before and after bouts, but when it is time to go, I am all business. For demos, I love to entertain the crowd.  ``Doring

Φ Tri. ~ I let it be amusing if the conditions are right, or at demos. I am serious at important lysts.  ``Francis

Duel of honor

Φ Atl. ~ This is a duel of honor. keep it that way. want to play? go see sport fencing. want entertainment? go to a movie. i'm here to fight.  ``Rufus

Φ Mer. ~ I tend to fight with a duel or bout of honor mentality.

Looking good

Φ Atl. ~ Unless someone asks specifically, it is to the death, but with flair and panache. Live and let die.  ``Nikolai

Φ Caid ~ I't all about looking good. So much so that I prefer a good looking fight with both fighters showing skill and grace, that I lose, over a fast sloppy fight that I win.  ``Njall

Φ Loch. ~ I fence with a lot more in mind than [the choices for the question]. If it's a beginner, I want them to look good and not be trounced, so I try to make it a better looking fight. I really like those fights with masters that go on for ages because we are really going hammer and tongs with a lot of skill and flare. Even a one shot kill is great if it involves tying up my opponent and looking good while doing it. No one likes a quick easy kill that doesn't look interesting.  ``Gregory

Φ Mid. ~ There are three kinds of fencers, The Quick, The Dead and The Devilishly Handsome Crowd Pleasers.

Martial art

Φ AEth. ~ i get irritated by our own fencers who think that our martial art should come without bruises...it is not possible to go through a large tournament full speed and not get hit hard occasionally. deliberate or consistantly hard hits should be delt with by the martials. accidental hard hits ... well [stuff] happens! get on with it and quit being a wus! it is no wonder that the heavies call us wire weenies!  ``Parion

Φ Aten. ~ See 'trained monkey' comment earlier...  ``Senan

Φ Mer. ~ It is a game and not a martial art as practiced within the SCA. Even so, I personally try to apply it in that direction.

Melees & tourneys

Φ AEth. ~ How I play changes depending on circumstances (e.g., are we in a melee or single combat? Tournament or sparring?)

Φ AEth. ~ I'm not afraid of being hit in terms of the game, but if it were an actual melee there's no way I'd be going up against four or five armed opponents when I'm by myself!  ``Charles

Φ Anst. ~ Melee - Blades are sharp, someone could die. Afterall, this is "war". Tournaments - blades are blunted, this is for my entertainment and that of my opponent, we are there it challenge ourselves and better our skills through a fun, friendly competition.

Φ Aten. ~ In war scenarios I tend toward the "no quarter" play. In tourney, depending on the scenario, I'll play to the gallery and work with my opponent. In practice and training, I work on the "these are real swords" principal.  ``Egan

Φ Atl. ~ The blade is sharp/blade is dull answer depends on the setting. In a melee, it's to the death and you better bring all of your friends. In a regular tournament, it depends, but the blades probably have blunts.

Φ Caid ~ No quarter is given or expected: melees yes, tounaments get civalry.  ``Johann

Φ Caid ~ I try to be as chivalrous as possible on the tourney field. The battle field is a different story. Chivalry is important, but it's a different game on the battle field.  ``Hob

Φ East ~ In a melee, I play to win and behave as though the blades were sharp, although I will still perform an occasional act of chivalry.  ``Jeanne

Φ Mid. ~ I do like "retained wounds" tournies, as that cuts down on the stupid stuff people do because they come back "whole" the next bout so they don't worry about getting badly "wounded" if they can "kill" they're opponant.  ``Alexander

Φ Out. ~ No quarter if a melee sistuation but atherwise we are gentelmen and ladies proper behavior is encouraged at all times.  ``Diana

Persona, Period

Φ Atl. ~ As far as mindset goes, I try to work as close to what someone (if not my persona) would have (or might have) thought in period - melee/war scenerio vs. training bouts. It makes a difference.  ``Costanca

Φ Atl. ~ In my area of Atlantia, we have historically called our fighting rapier as opposed to duello. I come from the point of view that "Hey, this guy, or gal, is trying to kill me!" If our personas meant to play we wouldn't be attacking each other with 40 inch double edged razor blades.  ``Cristobal

Φ East ~ I don't particularly care about winning, but that is what is accurate for my persona.  ``Matatias

Φ East ~ For me, this is a big educational game filled with sweaty social fun. To my persona, everything we do on the field is part of a training exercise in the salle - it HAS to be, because nobody actually dies. So we train as though they were sharp, but occasionally do theatrical things.

Φ Loch. ~ I love the period experience and also take some inspiration from theate and literature period and period subject in the modern theater! :)  ``Marc

Quarter

Φ An Tir ~ No quarter is expected, we're here to have a good and challenging time.

Φ An Tir ~ No quarter is given or expected, but not because I'm competetive, just because I'm ruthless. . . . HA!  ``Juana

Φ Art. ~ No quarter is expected, but quarter is always to be given to my opponent.  ``Spanish Dan

Φ Atl. ~ Will generally offer "wounded" opponents a chance to surrender.  ``Renard

[end]

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Original page posted: October 18, 2004. Last tweaked: July 1, 2006.

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