Results and comments from the Aug/Sep 2003 survey.

	Ýves’ big SCA rapier survey #1 ~ Banned
	Updated: May 24, 2005

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Policy blurb

By default, authors of comments sent in response to this survey are named only by their permission. Usually, other people mentioned in a comment are named only with their permission as well. Each comment represents only what the author typed in for the survey at the time.

» This survey was conducted during August-September 2003. Things change over time. «

Some comments were edited for content. Certain harsh words have been changed for your amusement. Opinions expressed by the authors do not necessarily reflect those of the surveyor.

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# of Responses
by Kingdom
 
AEth.  = 34/235
Anst.  = 36/240
An Tir = 56/347
Art.   = 12/124
Aten.  = 27/460
Atl.   = 60/425
Caid   = 49/400
Drach. = 21/76
Eald.  = 12/77
East   = 46/480
Loch.  = 22/120
Mer.   = 27/140
Mid.   = 52/640
Nor.   = 25/164
Out.   = 26/214
Tri.   = 46/237
West   = 14/70
Unk.   = 2

The gist

The comments below were sent in response to Question 12.

If fencing was banned within a kingdom or throughout the Society, many of us would be unhappy. Some of us would play less in the SCA and fence elsewhere, some would leave (sooner or later), some would take action within the SCA...

The comments

Note: Any remarks in the comments below from Yves look like this.

The notion of SCA fencing being banned or outlawed Society-wide, or just locally, is somewhat controversial and provocative. So, a few of the comments below might be a bit strong.

The topic headings below include: Fence elsewhere, Fence anyway, Play less, Take action, Wouldn't quit, Didn't leave, Gone, and Came back.

Other comments on this topic are on separate pages.
See the links at the bottom of this page.
 

Choice picks

Φ Caid ~ I doubt I would have become so involved in the SCA if I hadn't fallen in love with fencing. However, now that I'm thoroughly entrenched, I doubt I'd leave all together if for some reason I was physically unable to fence. However, if it were actually banned, I'd probably be so disgusted that I'd leave altogether (see similar behavior of many of the lights (shinai) fighters of CAID who left altogether after their fighting form was dissolved this summer). [2003]

Φ Eald. ~ If fencing were not possiblem for any reason, I would become more likely to quit, but it would be one of the factors, not *the* factor.

Φ East ~ If rapier combat became outlawed in my Kingdom it would be because of some sort of political disaster which would inevitably also force me to quit the SCA. It wouldn't be the lack of fencing per se. It would be whatever caused the lack of fencing.

Φ East ~ I can't say I'd *definitely* move out of kingdom if they banned fencing here, but I would most definitely consider it. Similarly, although I may not quit the SCA just because they ban fencing, chances are that I would quit because of the exclusionary climate that led to that decision.

Φ Out. ~ If the SCA outlawed fencing, it would signal a philosophical shift that would probably drive me from the SCA. I joined the SCA as a forum for fencing (I was one of the first two fencers in the Outlands / Atenveldt - outside of Ansteorra). If rapier combat had been outlawed at the time, I would have quit the SCA.  ``Guillaume

Fence elsewhere

Æthelmearc

Φ If fencing were gone I would cry LOTS. However I do have a medical condition that occasionally keeps me off the field and I have had to learn to cope with the lack of rapier already. I would still play SCA, but I wopuld fence at home to curb the cravings.

Φ The way the question is worded, it implies there would be no other opportunities to fence if it were not an officially sanctioned activity. My fellow fencers and I would not stop fencing, though it be independently of the SCA. We've already established a network. Some might leave the Society, but not most.  ``Miguel

An Tir

Φ I'd also fence outside the SCA while continuing in the SCA.

Φ Fencing got me in, now it's an important part, but I'd fence outside the sca if it wasn't there.

Φ I love to fence but I am highly involved in other aspects of the SCA, I would dearly miss not fencing if it were outlawed, but I would find a non-SCA fencing group in which to indulge.  ``Allyne

Φ I would not quite SCA if fencing were outlawed, although I'd make the effort to travel to other kingdoms where I could compete, and I'd also look for other groups in my area (or start one of my own!) where I could continue rapier combat.  ``Luaithrenn

Artemisia

Φ I would likely quit playing in my Kingdom and play elsewhere. I would even get a P.O. Box in the nearest fencing kingdom so my Home kingdom would be denied my membership quota.  ``Sionainn

Atlantia

Φ If I was forced to move to, say, Calontir, I'd grumble about them only having closet-fencers, and then find a local olympic fencing school that I like and play with them - or theatrical, or something. Which then would lead to splitting up time between that and the SCA.  ``Costanca

East

Φ I fence in a ton of places. If the SCA banned fencing, it wouldn't really effect me. Fencing is the only thing that I do in the SCA.  ``Armand

Meridies

Φ If fencing were banned, I would probably travel out-kingdom much more. I already travel out kingdom to specific fencing events.  ``Irene

Midrealm

Φ I , and probable others would continue rapier combat. Just do it outside of the SCA.

Φ If rapier combat became outlawed, I'd work with other fencers to have rapier combat outside the auspices of the SCA.  ``Luisa

Φ I would want to move if fencing became outlawed but my partner probably would frown on that course of action. With no other concerns I'd probably move myself.

Φ While Rapier is my main focus in the SCA, and I have dedicated the last thirteen years of my life to it's introduction and support in my kingdom, I have found other activities that I would do before leaving the SCA if rapier were outlawed. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't also join another organization to do rapier.  ``Purple

Northshield

Φ I'd move if I could relating to my whole life including local friends, job, and other mundane considerations.

Outlands

Φ I'd still fence... OUTSIDE the SCA...  ``Antoine

Φ If my kingdom [outlawed fencing], I suspect another thriving splinter group would be the result.  ``Guillaume

Trimaris

Φ If fencing became owlawed in my kingdom, I'd fence on my own.

Φ Though if it were outlawed I would tend to attend events of other organizations where fencing was present.  ``Elric

Φ Rapier combat is what drew me to the SCA and it is a passion of mine. If it were to be outlawed I would continue to fight outside the SCA and would probably end up setting up a tournament circuit or something to that effect to keep people involved.  ``Silvain

Φ I love to fence and have since I was 11 years old. Beleive me when I say there are other places to do it in this world. I don't know that I would leave the SCA all together because I do have friends here but I am sure I would split my time with another organization.

Fence anyway

Φ Atl. ~ Where is the question "if it gets outlawed will you still do it in the back alleys?"  ``Gypsy Boy

Φ Atl. ~ If I didn't like the fencing in the kingdom, I'd tried to try an work around the system. In general, I'd fight anyone who was willing.

Φ East ~ I have other hobbies and friends in the SCA. It's a social outlet as well as a creative one. I wouldn't as *as much* fun in the SCA without Rapier, but that doesn't mean I would abandon everything else and everyone that I know if I can't play that game. Of course all the other rapier fighters and myself would still play, with or without the SCA sanction.  ``Brokk

Φ Loch. ~ One word OUTLAW .. lettem try and stop fencing. Would fight furiously and practice ooulawed artes if they ever tried ... we did it before we'd do it again.

Φ Mid. ~ If rapier was outlawed in my kingdom, I'd keep fighting anyway, because I would have no respect for any roayls dumb enough to ban rapier.

Φ Mid. ~ If rapier-play were outlawed, I'd do it anyway. There are ways. Also, fencing won't be outlawed because by definition anything using a sword is fencing. Even a sword made of rattan.  ``Alexander

Play less or (eventually) leave

Φ An Tir ~ Fencing is why I'm in the SCA, If I couldn't fence I wouldn't play!!

Φ An Tir ~ If rapier combat were banned in An Tir (slim chance), I probably wouldn't quit right away - there are many other things I like doing in the SCA, and I have many friends in the SCA. However, SCA would fall way down my list of priorities.  ``Ruaidhri

Φ Anst. ~ I wouldn't quit right away if fencing became outlawed, but it would probably lead to that eventually as I can proable do the rest of what I like to do in other outlets.  ``Claire

Φ Anst. ~ The reality is that I would get involved with fencing outside the SCA and that would eventually take all my time so I would become inactive in the SCA. I would show up on occasion to visit with old friends.  ``Doré

Φ Atl. ~ The situation of it being outlawed in my kingdom would likely mean that the politics suck to the point that I would find other things (non-SCA) to do.  ``Cam

Φ Drach. ~ I fencing rules are altered again by Earl Marshalls / Society Marshalls who are totally focused on heavy fighting I will stop fencing and quit playing SCA (I already stopped doing Combat Archery because of that).

Φ East ~ I would quit the SCA to make a statement more than anything else, and I can only hope that other people will do the same. And then, well, since we have all the equipment, we could rent our own space and fence together outside the SCA until another King is crowned, or the current King changes his mind.

Φ Mer. ~ I did ALMOST quit the last time rapier was outlawed in Meridies.

Φ Mid. ~ I'd certainly play SCA a whole lot less if I didn't like the fencing or it was outlawed.  ``Kyrstyan

Φ Tri. ~ I am as new to fencing as I am to the SCA. I joined the SCA because of the fencing community in my area and have stayed with it only to find I enjoy the equestrian and that I am curious about the different forms of heavy fighting available. If they dropped fencing I know I would spend a lot less time on the SCA.

Play “heavy”

Φ Mid. ~ If rapier was outlawed (yikes!) or I didn't like it in a kingdom I'd move to, I'd fight armored combat. I'm starting to do both anyways.  ``Kriemhilt

Φ West ~ I would just go back to doing heavy more often.  ``Etain

React

Φ Atl. ~ If rapier became outlawed I'd probably weep openly for days. Don't even suggest that; it's not funny.  ``Dante P

It wouldn't make my day either...

Φ Nor. ~ I would be greatly disappointed and angry if rapier ever went away.

Take action

Æthelmearc

Φ If fencing were outlawed in my kingdom, I would work to see it restored.  ``Corwin

Φ If they outlawed fencing in my Kingdom, I'd raise hell until they brought it back.  ``Illadore

Φ Fencing is not likely to be outlawed in AEthelmearc... too many Royal Peers fence. I would continue to play SCA if it did happen, but would not take such a ban quietly.  ``Michael

An Tir

Φ I'd continue to find ways to make fencing fit into the SCA.

Φ Personally, I would spearhead a drive to reinstitute rapier if it was outlawed, and I would hold "unofficial" events that included it.  ``Gwydion

Φ If rapier were outlawed, I would quit to protest. If I didn't like it, I'd try to change it if I could. Depending on WHY I didn't like it, I might still engage in other SCA activities.  ``Vincent

Ansteorra

Φ I can not move to another kingdom so if rapier was outlawed I would first try to get it legal again then I would leave if it was not put back. If I moved to a kingdom without rapier I would try to get it legal there. If not I would find other places to fence.  ``Pieter

Φ I'm from Ansteorra. Fencing being outlawed is about as likely as A&S being outlawed. That being said, if it were I'd be too busy fighting the ban to stop playing. If the military moved me to Calontir, I'd still play heavy, but would work at getting rapier accepted (don't even wonder how hard that fight would be).

"Hmmmm. Tricky."

Atenveldt

Φ Fencing was one of the primary reasons for joining the SCA. If I did not like the fencing style of a kingdom I resided in I would try my best to educate them in the true art of fencing.  ``Sebastiana

Atlantia

Φ Just kill off the moron that outlawed fencing. eventually we can eliminate those till we get a fencing marshall as king!

Φ If fencing weren't legal where I lived, I would do everything in my power to make it legal. If that didn't work, well, I'd seriously consider relocating.

Φ I would stay for my friends as well. However, if fencing was banned I would complain and do anything in my power to have it reinstated. if nothing was in my power, I would sulk a lot.  ``Constanza

Φ Howevere if fencing were outlawed in my kingdom I would either quit the SCA or move to a Kingdom that allowed it... or else find some outlaws and start a renegade fencing group and fight at Pennsic Wars. :)  ``Keelin

Caid

Φ I'd be really ANGRY, really really ANGRY if my kingdom got rid of rapier. I would organize and lead a "million blade march" or something. And would definately petition the royalty. Ooooo! Don't get me started on that.   ``Dalen

Ah, but that was the general purpose...

Φ I belonged to a household that is more interested in period encampment and social interaction long before I got into SCA Fencing so I would continue with them but would have some SERIOUS reservations about doing so. I would be forced to let my opinion be known to those responible in some way.  ``Colwyn

Φ If fencing were banned someplace that I was living, I would become a massive pain in the [buttocks] to those who opposed it. I would organize rapier events adjacent to official SCA events, repeatedly humiliate those who oppose it, etc. After all, if fencing isn't legal, they can't pull my authorization card.  ``Todde

Φ If you aren't aware of Caid Politics, this might not make sense, but I was brought into the SCA fighting what we call "lights". Using Shinai as a sword simulator and only enough armour to be safe. This was outlawed by will of TRM this month. [Aug 2003] This has caused me to become more involved in Fencing (and loose respect for TRM, but that's another story.) Should Fencing go away as well . . . I may consider playing in a neighbouring kingdom, or staging a small revolt. One can only take so much. ``Meala

Drachenwald

Φ If fencing weren't legal where I lived, I would do everything in my power to make it legal. If that didn't work, well, I'd seriously consider relocating.  ``Gerhardt

Ealdormere

Φ If rapier combat was outlawed in my kingdom I'd hope over the border to Aethelmarc and East to fight with schlagers (and do my other stuff in Ealdormere), but I would ensure rapier would be back in Ealdormere ASAP.  ``Wilhelm

East

Φ If fencing were outlawed in my kingdom I would likely put up a big fight and if unable to get it back I suspect my involvement in the SCA would diminish severely, as well as many of us continuing to practice unofficially.  ``Ronan

Lochac

Φ You touched a nerve with this one, I was Lochacs Principality Rapier Marshal when West banned it. No, I would not quit. I would (and did) work like hell to get it back.  ``Dameon

Φ If it was ever banned, I'd find somewhwere else to play rapier. I'd still play the other fun stuff in the SCA, and fight damn hard to have rapier brought back in.  ``Gregory

Midrealm

Φ If I moved to Calontir, I'd make sure that fencing got started there. If rapier combat was outlawed in my kingdom, I'd work to make sure it was allowed again.  ``Toshikage

Φ If fencing were outlawed I'd gather those who still enjoy it and keep playing and working towards it's reinstatement. My Knight would want it that way and so would I.  ``Uadahlrich

Outlands

Φ If fencing was outlawed, I'd have to rustle up a black mask ala Zorro.  ``Volker

Φ I don't like the phrasing of the first two responses, because I wouldn't quit, I'd work to bring fencing back.  ``Christian

Φ I would fight to have it reinstated and encourage a practice outside of the sca with sca rules until it was reinstated.  ``Diana

Φ I'd fence no matter if it were outlawed or not, just away from SCA eyes if it were outlawed, and I'd fight with all my heart for it's return.  ``Jalid

Trimaris

Φ If rapier combat became outlawed in my Kingdom, I would work the system until it was reinstated. If I had to move to another kingdom where I didn't like the fencing, I would either adapt, or work the system until I did like it.  ``Cillian

Tough choice

Φ Drach. ~ Rapier is the biggest part of my SCA life, but I could live without it. I don't know if I would (or could) move to a kingdom if mine didn't have rapier. Real life still takes precedence.  ``Muirghein

Φ East ~ Don't make me chose between fencing and SCA.

Φ East ~ I played in the SCA for some time in an area that wasn't active in fencing. Fencing is not my whole world but it is something I do a LOT of in the SCA. Most of my activity at the moment relates to fencing but I have been very active in other things in the past. It would depend on other factors if I quit because I didn't like the fencing...if I didn't like the fencing to me that indicates I couldn't get along with the people.  ``Astridr

Φ Nor. ~ This is a hard one. I would likely stop playing if rapier stopped here, but I might just slip into armored and find rapier elsewhere. It would all depend what itme it happened in mylife (right now, Ihave time for one thing, and that is rapier -- in a few years, that will likely change).  ``Simon

Wouldn’t quit

Φ An Tir ~ I have too many friends in the SCA to completely quit.  ``Juana

Φ An Tir ~ I'd really miss fencing as it's one of the things I really enjoy in the SCA but I'm also heavily involved in both arts and service as well.  ``Alicia

Φ An Tir ~ I most likely would not quit the SCA if RAPIER (fencing is something that evolved outside of the SCA period, and is not really appropriate) were outlawed, as I do other things. And I have an outlet for historical rapier outside of the SCA. However, if such a thing were to happen, I would need to seriously look into why I care to continue to play, since such a heavy handed decision is unneccessary...since what we do is within the stated SCA time period by a good 200 years.  ``Ramon

Φ Atl. ~ Umm been around for a while, so not leaving if fencing goes away.

Φ Drach. ~ While the outlawing/absense of fencing in the sca wouldn't be enough to force me to leave, it would take away a large part of my enjoyment in the society.

Φ Drach. ~ I have been a heavy fighter for 8.5 years, a king and a knight. I started fencing before my reign. I find fencing an awesome addition to my sca experience. But nothing would make me quite the SCA except that it was no longer any fun.  ``Gerhardt

Φ Eald. ~ I have other interests in the SCA (mostly the study of period military history and arms and armour. I also enjoy the social aspects of the SCA. The loss of rapier would be very disheartening but not a mortal blow.  ``Albrecht

Φ East ~ If fencing went away or I moved somewhere it wasn't allowed, I'd miss it and do it in my backyard, but I wouldn't quit.

Φ East ~ I'd be hugely disappointed, but it would free me up to focus on other SCA aspects where I'd like to improve my skills.  ``Ian

Φ East ~ I got into the SCA through fencing, but i now have many other things which interest me, so if for some reason i couldn't fence, i would still play in the SCA.  ``Brita

Φ Mer. ~ What, and give up dancing? I think not...  ``Sigurd

Φ Nor. ~ The loss of fencing in the SCA would be a serious mistake. While I would not quit the SCA, a very large part of my fun would be curtailed and I probably would not enjoy the SCA as much.  ``David

Didn’t leave

Φ AEth. ~ I did live in a kingdom that banned fencing for awhile (West) and I managed to survive, and continue to fence once it became legal again, as well in the new kingdom that I moved to.

Φ Atl. ~ I don't like the fencing in An Tir, so I started a historical fencing group at my college. I didn't do much of anything with An Tir, but I didn't quit the SCA either. I just plan on establishing an Atlantian outpost, instead.  ``Rois

Φ Caid ~ Our people in Caid are having to deal with this now that shinai has been "outlawed." Some are quitting. Some are finding other things to do. I joined the SCA for the history and made many friends along the way. I wouldn't leave them just because some jerk couldn't see how rapier makes the SCA a better, more well rounded exercise in recreating history.  ``Kelan

Φ Mer. ~ I moved ftom Anstaeorra to Meridies when there was no fencing. Nine years w/o fencing and i am still here.

Gone

Φ AEth. ~ I just recently dropped out of the SCA and SCA fencing. I found the politics, uneven-handed awards, attitudes, etc. around fencing to be very discouraging. It was not the sole factor in the SCA not being fun anymore, but it was a factor. I took the survey anyway to provide you with data -- I was *very* active up until quite recently.

Φ Loch. ~ Not sure if I should have filled this out as I no longer fence. I stopped because some poxy pointy-head with a hat to match outlawed it in the west and that knocked the momentum out of the local fencing movement. It has been resurrected since but I just don't get along with the people involved. Feel free to ignore my answers if you don't think they're relevant; I promise not to be offended... *grin* [Actually, I think they're quite relevant. My thanks.]

Came back

Φ AEth. ~ I did quit playing SCA for several years because I didn't like the fencing in the kingdom I was in (Outlands). When I was choosing mundane graduate schools, part of my decision making process included where I and my lord (a DWS) would be happy in the SCA fencing community. Outside of fencing, I have also held non-martially related regional offices and am also a active scribe. Not all of my SCA life revolves around fencing, but it is the primary reason why I joined the SCA and I'm not sure that I would be very interested anymore if I couldn't fence (although I might consider becoming part of the armored community - it would depend on the situation).  ``Sasha

Φ Anst. ~ I did move to another kingdom where fencing was worse than a second class activity, I did not play in that kingdom at all because of that. I became active in the sca when we moved back to Texas.  ``Chiara

Φ Atl. ~ I quit the SCA when my kingdom became pay-to-play, even though I was a paid member at the time. I can fence with my friends with or without the SCA. Since the rules have become slightly relaxed, I have returned when my work schedule lets me.  ``Cristobal

[end]

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