Results and comments from the Aug/Sep 2003 survey.

	Ýves’ big SCA rapier survey #1 ~ Schläger blades
	Updated: May 24, 2005

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Policy blurb

By default, authors of comments sent in response to this survey are named only by their permission. Usually, other people mentioned in a comment are named only with their permission as well. Each comment represents only what the author typed in for the survey at the time.

» This survey was conducted during August-September 2003. Things change over time. «

Some comments were edited for content. Certain harsh words have been changed for your amusement. Opinions expressed by the authors do not necessarily reflect those of the surveyor.

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# of Responses
by Kingdom
 
AEth.  = 34/235
Anst.  = 36/240
An Tir = 56/347
Art.   = 12/124
Aten.  = 27/460
Atl.   = 60/425
Caid   = 49/400
Drach. = 21/76
Eald.  = 12/77
East   = 46/480
Loch.  = 22/120
Mer.   = 27/140
Mid.   = 52/640
Nor.   = 25/164
Out.   = 26/214
Tri.   = 46/237
West   = 14/70
Unk.   = 2

The gist

These comments were sent in response to Question 11.

Why most people like schläger blades for SCA rapier — they're a step up from the lighter weapons in authenticity (balance, feel, movement, weight, etc.) and they cost less than Del Tin blades.

Why some people don't — too heavy, too whippy, not as authentic as other more expensive blades (Del Tin, etc.) that better simulate a rapier.

The comments

Note: Any remarks in the comments below from Yves look like this.

Jump to: Neutral/Mixed comments, Unfavorable comments

For more comments and stats, see the links at the bottom of this page.

FAVORABLE

Æthelmearc

Φ Love Schlager..weapon of choice!
Φ The practice Alchem schlager moves nicely.

Φ Schlager is the only heavy rapier I've used but I like its additional authenticity.  ``Charles

Φ I prefer schlaeger because it brings us a little bit (just a little, though) closer to a period rapier.  ``Jean

Φ I LOVE schlager - it feels and acts more like a period weapon. The schlager game is more cerebral because it's a little slower.  ``Sasha

Φ My personal preference is Schlager- it comes closest to mimicing what I do for onstage/theatrical combat. Dependable, cost-effective, etc..  ``Po

Φ I prefer a light, diamond-cross-section schlaeger because it's rigid enough to allow more period movements but not so heavy as to feel clumsy.

Φ Schlager: like, for a long time it was the best we had for rapier work. They handle a bit more like rapiers than modern class blades and are readily available.  ``Christian

Read more comments on Alchem. (Q 13,14).

An Tir

Φ WKC -- best out there.
Φ I like the Schlager because it is not whippy.
Φ I like the schlager as it encourages good form.  ``Vincent

Φ Love my schlager 38" diamond, she's just my baby..
Φ Schlager - like - inexpensive, fairly consistent weapon.

Φ My schlager is custom made, weighted much heavier than my hanwei. Better for blade beats, control of opponents weapons etc.

Read more comments on WKC. (Q 13,14).

Ansteorra

Φ Schlager - best feel, best edge.

Φ When the heavy blades started to become really popular, got a schlager, and have come to really like it.  ``David

Artemisia

Φ I like schlager the best, because I have grown used to it.

Φ Diamond schlager is good. oval good. both are rigid enough to control.

Atenveldt

Φ Schlager it feels right.
Φ Schlager(like) - it's all i've ever used.
Φ Love it, it has a good feel in my hand.

Atlantia

Φ Schläger.....better feel than epee.

Φ I prefer the schlager as it is more like a real weapon.  ``Marcus

Φ Generic schlager is prob my favorite: the feel of real with safty in mind.

Φ I love the schlager because it feels the most like the "real thing" to me.  ``Jacques

Φ I much prefer the Schaegers to epees. The parries work better, it's easier for me to be more agressive (don't know why), and they look pretty!  ``Costanca

Φ I have been mainly inactive since schlagers have become legal in my kingdom, but look forward to using them once I have returned to a proficiency level where I feel comfortable with a new and more dangerous weapon.  ``Cristobal

Caid

Φ Schläger -- period feel.

Φ Prefer the Schlager for weight and balance.

Φ I like ... oval schlagers, they just suit my style and feel really good.

Drachenwald

Φ Like: Schlagers (cheap, reasonable rapier simulator).

Φ I like the schlager - it is flexible (thus rarely hitting too hard), has lasted me for 5 years since purchase (although it has only been used regularly for the last 2 1/2 years), and is well-balanced for fighting.  ``Acarin

Ealdormere

Φ Schlager: Like them. Easy to come by, and last forever.  ``Sebastian

Φ WKC diamond. I like the overall look and weight of this blade.

Φ Schlager - ... universally better for recreation than fiberglass, foil or epee. The balance, absolute weight and characterisic behavior of the blade is to me more real with a real metal sword. Ovals beat the Fiberglass, foil and epee and diamond schlagers beat ovals.

East

Φ The old style schlaegers (35) are also nice. They are light and move well.  ``Brokk

Φ Schlaeger...lighter version of a Del Tin (weight and durability...makes period moves more understandable...)  ``Alain

Lochac

Φ Schlagers are great. Generally a bit heavier than is nice, but the one I use is very nice. Definite hitting and registration of blows. Definite parrying. They are a lot quicker than they appear.  ``Gregory

Meridies

Φ Schlager-like alot, right weight and a good length.

Midrealm

Φ I LOVE SHLAUGER.

Φ Like=Schlager. Good balance and weight.

Φ Only used the one blade (litterally one blade for 4 yrs.) don't get me started on blades allowed in SCA grumble...

Northshield

Φ Schlager for normal fighting.

Φ Schlager allows more period technique.  ``Margalit

Φ I love Schlager, I feel I have much better control of my tip/blade.  ``Gabrielle

Φ I like the Schlager but since I've never fought with anything else, I can't compare it to anything.

Φ I like the feel of the schlager over the foil but I've learned that once you increase your length of blade (went from 36 to 40 or so inch) that the physics are really different.  ``Faelan

Outlands

Φ I prefer the WKC schlager.  ``Jalid

Φ Like schlager for look and feel.  ``Volker

Φ Schlager is more realistic because of the weight.

Φ Schlager...it has the balance and feel of a real rapier blade.

Trimaris

Φ I like Schlager for the "rapier" feel (ie weight).  ``Seamus

Φ Schlager I like the two or three times I have tried it.

Φ Schlager is the best for blade safety. They never bend/break and are very durable.

Φ I enjoy Schlagers because they feel and act more like an actual rapier. Also they are much more durable, have never had to replace a schlager blade.  ``Silvain

Φ Schlager is closer to what would have been used, plus it's (all in all) safer than epee. Also, since most other (neighboring) Kingdoms are schlager-only, Trimaris is at a disadvantage as far as constant practice with schlager.  ``Melangell

West

Φ wkc solingen shlagger, heavy, good for cuts and thrusts.

Φ Liked Schlager a lot, too... especially the lighter models.

Plus generic favorable mentions from: Artemisia 1, Atenveldt 1, Caid 3, East 3, Lochac 1, Midrealm 1, Outlands 3, and Trimaris 1.

NEUTRAL/MIXED

Æthelmearc

Φ Oval cross section schlagers have required the least maintenance per my experience.  ``Corwin

An Tir

Φ Don't mind the shlager which I am currently using. It is a bit heavy for me.  ``Draven

Φ Schlager (37") - stiff, parries well, can hit hard, slightly heavy weight, now kept as a spare.

Φ I've had use of a schläger for nearly 2 years and very much like it, but I find it to be too soft/whippy when fighting against some of the stiffer blades.  ``Allyne

Φ I love schlaegers because they're fairly light weight, they're steel, they have good centers of rotation and percussion for sidesword work, and they have none of the problems of fiberglass. My main problem with schlagers is that they seem more suited to smallsword style, which is out of period.  ``Ruaidhri

Ansteorra

Φ Schlagers were nice until Del Tins became available.

Φ I like schlaeger, but it's almost nostalgic, because it was the first heavy blade I learned and I remember that experience fondly.

Artemisia

Φ The earlier west german schlager were great. The newer ones are a bit poor in quality.  ``Sionainn

Atenveldt

Φ Schlagers are too narrow to simulate a 16th century rapier, but they are inexpensive and wear well.

Atlantia

Φ Schlager better than epee and foil but not as good as the heavier blades.

Caid

Φ Schlager is really too light, but I use them for tourneys.  ``Alexander K

Φ I'm new to Schlager, but I'm really enjoying it as well...though my shoulder's are tired!  ``Stefano

Φ Not experienced enough to know. :) I played with a Schlager last week for the first time it was HEAVY :)

Drachenwald

Φ Okay: Diamond Schlagers.  ``Cernac

Φ I found schlagers quite heavy to handle without proper muscle training.

Φ I like Schlaeger ... I keep my Schlaeger mostly as a spare and to lend to other fencers; I find the blade *very* stiff compared to the Hanwei.  ``Guntram

Ealdormere

Φ Schlagers are an improvement, by no means perfect but an improvement.  ``Albrecht

Φ There are schlagers that are too light (they are almost like epee's in weight, which means they don't move properly for a schlager fight).  ``Wilhelm

East

Φ I like the feel of schager but I'm paranoid about hitting too hard (I do heavy) occassionally I do hit too hard.  ``Cynan

Meridies

Φ Schlagers are cheapest to replace.

Midrealm

Φ Schlägers are ok if you can't get better than that.  ``Uadahlrich

Φ Like diamond Schlaeger ok, but it's much whippier [than Zamorano].  ``Kriemhilt

Φ Schlagers are better than epees, but not ideal. I prefer the diamond cross-section for the shorter blades, and the oval cross section for the longer blades (slightly more stiff).  ``Toshikage

Φ Schlagers are a nice balance and decent but just not close enough to a real sword. Good for a budget, bad for looks and how they act...not as bad as Hanweis but definately not a Del Tin.

Φ I like them all although I was worried about the schlagers when we first started using them and I still don't believe that they should be mandated as the basic legal blade style in the Middle Kingdom.

Outlands

Φ Regular schlagers are line, but the lack of taper means they weight in odd manners, unlike a period blade.  ``Charles

Φ I like schläger: it is a marginally better recreation than epée, it requires greater skill to use safely (plus and minus), but they are often whippy.  ``Guillaume

Φ I prefer to use and face rapier and ones that aren't too stiff, flexability helps when your opponent lacks thrust control or isn't as combat aware to not run up on a blade. Schlagers are ok, but I feel they are more dangerous in all aspects and violate the basic tennant of SCA combat to not carry live steel on the field of battle. In adition, no one would like to see me use a schalager as a replacment for a katana blade and really enliven things.  ``Doring

Trimaris

Φ Schalger. No mistakes calling those shots.

Φ Schlager, very sexy weapon but because of the weight the bruises are much greater.

Φ Schlagers rely on my strength and less finess (in my esperience), so do not like them as well, dispite the fact that they are probably a good deal more 'period'.  ``Francis

UNFAVORABLE

Φ Anst. ~ The schlager is a bit heavy for me yet.  ``Walter

Φ Anst. ~ I don't care much for schlager anymore, since it is outclassed by most other heavy blades. Also they tend to be too stiff and poorly balanced.

Φ Aten. ~ Schlaegers are not good rapier simulators.  ``John Patrick

Φ Atl. ~ Schlager is too slow.

Φ Drach. ~ Dislike: Oval schlagers.  ``Cernac

Φ Drach. ~ Not too keen on the longer schlagers, as they tend to be a bit heavy.

Φ Mer. ~ I do not care for the schlagers as I prefer the more authentic style blades.

Φ Mid. ~ Dislike 40'+ schlager, Too whippy.

Φ Mid. ~ Schlaegers aren't much better than Epees.  ``Purple

Φ Mid. ~ Schlaegers I can take or leave ... I particularly dislike diamond schlaegers.  ``Robert

Φ Mid. ~ I dislike schlagers because they lack the weight, balance, and distal taper of a good rapier simulator.

Φ Nor. ~ Schlager a bit too stiff and not realistic looking.

Φ Tri. ~ The only I dislike has been a diamond schlager... takes little damage to destroy it.  ``Coinneach

Φ West ~ Schlager, is not my favorate, it just dose't feel right sometimes.  ``Tallon

More pages of blade comments

Del Tin . Epée and Foil . Fiberglass . Hanwei . Zamorano

"Heavy" blades . Miscellaneous comments

Your feedback is most welcome!

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Original page posted: October 18, 2004. Last tweaked: July 1, 2006.

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