Results and comments from the Aug/Sep 2003 survey.

	Ýves’ big SCA rapier survey #1 ~ Weapon forms
	Updated: May 24, 2005

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Policy blurb

By default, authors of comments sent in response to this survey are named only by their permission. Usually, other people mentioned in a comment are named only with their permission as well. Each comment represents only what the author typed in for the survey at the time.

» This survey was conducted during August-September 2003. Things change over time. «

Some comments were edited for content. Certain harsh words have been changed for your amusement. Opinions expressed by the authors do not necessarily reflect those of the surveyor.

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# of Responses
by Kingdom
 
AEth.  = 34/235
Anst.  = 36/240
An Tir = 56/347
Art.   = 12/124
Aten.  = 27/460
Atl.   = 60/425
Caid   = 49/400
Drach. = 21/76
Eald.  = 12/77
East   = 46/480
Loch.  = 22/120
Mer.   = 27/140
Mid.   = 52/640
Nor.   = 25/164
Out.   = 26/214
Tri.   = 46/237
West   = 14/70
Unk.   = 2

Most popular
Rapier & dagger
Rapier
Rapier & shield
Two rapiers
Rapier & rigid

KEY

The choices and corresponding numerical values were: "Hate it " (-2),
"Don't like it " (-1), "Whatever" (0), "Like it " (+1) and "Love it " (+2).

N: Number of responses that were either negative or positive.
I chose to treat a "whatever" response as no response.

Per: (N ÷ 567). How many people who took the survey had a positive or negative opinion.

Raw avg: (Total of response values) ÷ 567.

Adj avg: (Raw avg ÷ N). This considers only the negative/positive responses.

0-10: Adj Avg put onto a scale from 0 to 10.

The comments

Note: Any remarks in the comments below from Yves look like this.

For more comments and stats, see the links at the bottom of this page.
 

Choice picks

Φ Aten. ~ Every period master advocated never fighting case.

Φ Caid ~ Hulk hate floppy cloaks! Hulk smash!  ``Curteis

Φ Loch. ~ My approach to Rapier is very much the Bar-brawl or street fight, where the training from the "schools" has to be used. As such, I like using things that you find lying around.  ``Hanbal

Any and all, enthusiasm

Φ An Tir ~ Gimme a pokie and I'm happy!

Φ Aten. ~ Variety is the spice of life and fencing. The best way to combat against a form is to know it well. Those who practice all the different form combinations will be much better prepared to fight against any form they come up against. A good example of this is those who do not like or know how to fight against a cloak. For what ever reason they do not like this form. When fighting against the cloak they are usually confused to how to fight against it.  ``Sebastiana

Φ Atl. ~ I will fight with whatever people have!  ``Nikolai

Φ Eald. ~ More people should get all their authorizations... Makes for better play when you can choose from ANY weapons form. :D  ``Sebastian

Φ Loch. ~ I will fence anytime, anywhere, for any or no reason, with anyone! :)  ``Marc

Φ Mer. ~ Fence, fence, fence.

Φ Nor. ~ I love fencing  :)

Φ Nor. ~ Like to Experiment with new forms.

Favorites

Φ Atl. ~ I prefer to fight single weapon, even against an opponent using multiple weapons.  ``Cristobal

Φ Drach. ~ I don't fence, these are what I like to watch.

Their "Love it" choices were dagger with cape, rapier with cape, and rapier with dagger.
Their "Like it" choices were single weapons, paired weapons, and weapon with shield.

Φ Mid. ~ Preference ranking: 1. Rapier and dagger, 2. Case of rapiers, 3. Dagger, either single or double, 4. Rapier and (heavy, small) cloak, 5. single rapier.  ``Kriemhilt

Φ Tri. ~ I am old school, I believe that single rapier is superior to all other forms.  ``Elric

Buckler, shield

Φ Anst. ~ I don't have a lot of preferences in weapons save that there are times when one choice or the other is best. E.G. I like rapier and shield (not buckler) in melee.  ``Doré

Φ Atl. ~ I love buckler in almost any situation, but especially for melees.  ``Nikolai

Cape, cloak

Φ Caid ~ Not a big fan of cloak--which I think is just a testimony to my lack of experience and the fact that I'm not very good with it.

Φ Eald. ~ I'm one of the few people in our area who uses cloak on any regular basis. I used to dislike it, but i've found with the right cloak it can be very effective, and people aren't used to playing against it.  ``Albrecht

Φ East ~ I still have a lot to learn... and my cape needs a weight to work properly ;)

Φ East ~ SCA rules don't let you use cloak right either. And once you get away from cloak or buckler, you start getting into silly hand puppets and the like.  ``Armand

Φ Mid. ~ Ask me about the difference between cape and period cloak!

So I did: Well, I know a cloak is a big heavy garment worn for protection from freezing to death and a cape is a much shorter, lighter garment worn mainly for style, right? *g*

Exactly the distinction I make. Most SCA (and other historical) fencers use a cape, and flip it around a bunch, in a kind of Errol Flynn way. I prefer a good, heavy, ankle-length cloak, wrapped twice around the arm and used to deflect a blade while voiding out of the line, a la di Grassi.  ``Christian

Φ Out. ~ I don't like fighting with cloak. I have found for my style of fighting that is the least effective (and the least fun) form.  ``Seuilla

Φ Tri. ~ I do not particularly care for cloak in general.  ``Cullen

Φ Tri. ~ Since what we do with cloak is NOTHING!  I dislike it.  ``Coinneach

Φ Tri. ~ Cloak as used in SCA rapier is about the stupidist thing they have come up with yet.  ``Elric

“Case” or two rapiers

Φ An Tir ~ I like case for melee scenarios. I do not like it on the Tourney field.

Φ An Tir ~ I would like to see case used more in tournaments, rarely ever see someone use it. There are some tournaments where-by it is banned for that tournament.  ``Vincent

Φ Anst. ~ When did two rapiers ("case") start to be called that instead of Florentine?  ``Chiara

Maybe someone who knows will send me the answer.

Φ East ~ Case really isn't a historical form.  ``Armand

Φ Out. ~ I enjoy watching case but have problems working it right for myself and therefore do not enjoy it all that much to fight.  ``Diana

Gun, pistol, RBG

Φ AEth. ~ RBG. Dont like.
Φ An Tir ~ Rapier and pistol (Melee only of course).
Φ Atl. ~ Rapier and RBG   LOVE IT.

History, Period

Φ AEth. ~ I take rapier fighting very seriously and any form that is appropriate to a gentle of my period is one that I will study and become at least competent with.  ``Christian

Φ Aten. ~ I don't use forms that don't appear in the period manuals.  ``John Patrick

Φ Aten. ~ Period scabbards are soft leather, and therefore would not make a good parrying device at all.

Φ Aten. ~ Batons, scabbards, whatever- they're not period, nor were they taught in historical treatises. Anything liek that, I dislike.  ``Senan

Φ Caid ~ I'm into historical stuff. So, if something was a historical style, I general like it. Read: single rapier and and rapier/dagger. I'm not as fond of case — the masters preached against it and it doesn't seem as elegant. Sword and buckler was a popular form but more for sidesword/broadsword than thrust oriented rapier, so I also downgraded it. Love Marazzo, though.  ``David

Φ Mer. ~ I like using actual period forms. Although, I have been asked to work on the sca accepted stuff just to be able to do them.  ``Leon

Φ Mer. ~ I prefer to work with forms that are shown to be historically correct. Canes and such would have been destroyed the first time they were hit by a blade.  ``Irene

Φ Tri. ~ Would love to see the renaissance italian greatswords (2 handers) picked up.

Φ West ~ Anythingthat affords the opportunity to evolve to fullcuts (as in most of the texts or 'side-sword' or olympic sabre) is preferred, except for encounters of the very late period kind where the point was the greater focus.

Read more comments on historical/period fencing. (Q 2,3).

Read more comments on authenticity. (Q 15).

Secondary items

Φ Out. ~ Being a Rattan fighter as well I find that rapier fighting with a stick/scabberd is uncomfretable because I fear I'll hit with it.  ``Rebekah

Unusual combinations/secondaries

Φ Anst. ~ I had not thought of some of those combinations, but I will try them.  ``Jacques

Φ Art. ~ A parrying feather was my favorite distraction, during one tournament :)  ``KyneWynn

Φ Caid ~ I don't like "silly secondaries", which I am assuming "soft, other" refers to.  ``Felinah

Well, actually, I was looking to see if there was anything people used besides cape/cloak for a soft parrying item, silly or not.

Φ Drach. ~ I'm working on rapier and siege engine... :)

Φ Out. ~ I have fought rapier and fish before...and organized an unusual off hands tournament.

Φ Tri. ~ I'm not much on sticks, but I have been known to pick up a fish or two.

Φ Tri. ~ I am one of the few to have fought ala Florentine (Rapier & Spinach), see Stefan's florigium. [Link to Stefan's Florilegium]

Stray comments

Φ AEth. ~ When a person has a 'martial' mentality, it will only take a bit of practice to understand the form. It may take lots of practice to perfect the form, but that's different. This carries over into other martial forms as well. The best people do serveral martial forms.

Φ An Tir ~ Just love the dying.....actually love the comraderie.  ``Duncan

Φ Drach. ~ Not sure what your definition of 'rapier' is in this question. I like Schlaeger and similar blades, but not epees or foils (at least for SCA fencing).  ``Guntram

Φ Tri. ~ Love the game, dislike the politics.

Φ Tri. ~ I enjoy going against someone using a different weapon combo than I am.

Φ Tri. ~ Mostly my 'favorite' during a lyst or war depends on the goal of the lyst (first blood, 3-man melee, etc.). ... If it were to learn, again I would probably work more on things I did not 'love' depending on who was available to give instruction, on brace of Schlage, for example, a style I don't like, but need to manage better.  ``Francis

Your feedback is most welcome!

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Original page posted: October 18, 2004. Last tweaked: July 1, 2006.

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