Results and comments from the Aug/Sep 2003 survey.

	Ýves’ big SCA rapier survey #1 ~ “Let’s just fence”
	Updated: May 24, 2005

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Policy blurb

By default, authors of comments sent in response to this survey are named only by their permission. Usually, other people mentioned in a comment are named only with their permission as well. Each comment represents only what the author typed in for the survey at the time.

» This survey was conducted during August-September 2003. Things change over time. «

Some comments were edited for content. Certain harsh words have been changed for your amusement. Opinions expressed by the authors do not necessarily reflect those of the surveyor.

To get YOUR name listed with YOUR comments, just give me permission. See the e-mail button and information at the bottom of the page. Let me know your SCA name and kingdom (as of Aug/Sep 2003), and I'll add the attribution to your entries.

# of Responses
by Kingdom
 
AEth.  = 34/235
Anst.  = 36/240
An Tir = 56/347
Art.   = 12/124
Aten.  = 27/460
Atl.   = 60/425
Caid   = 49/400
Drach. = 21/76
Eald.  = 12/77
East   = 46/480
Loch.  = 22/120
Mer.   = 27/140
Mid.   = 52/640
Nor.   = 25/164
Out.   = 26/214
Tri.   = 46/237
West   = 14/70
Unk.   = 2

The gist

Based on the responses:

• We're at least tolerant of adding some spice (variety, silliness, etc.) to make SCA fencing more interesting when appropriate (not at serious occasions, like Queen's ______) and in moderation.
• For spice, we favor tactical melee scenarios and "special" rules.
• We do not favor scenarios and parrying items that people find "silly".
• We enjoy some variety overall but also remember that the SCA is (at least intended to be) about history.

Question 2. “Let’s just fence”

What do you prefer to keep out of your own fencing experience in the SCA?

(Note: a scenario is a melee with goals and rules above that of merely eliminating one's opponents.)

KEY

Yes: Number of respondents who checked this on their survey.

Opn: Total number of respondents who checked this on their survey for either this question
or Question 3. Meaning, they had a strong opinion, pro or con.

% Opn: (Yes ÷ Opn). Of the people who had an opinion either way, how many answered Yes?

% All: (Yes ÷ All). Of all the surveys, how many were a "Yes" to this question?

I did not give specific examples of silly, extraneous, or special in the survey.
I left them open to individual interpretation on purpose.

Synonyms for extraneous include irrelevant, superfluous, inappropriate, and unrelated.

The comments

Note: Any remarks in the comments below from Yves look like this.

The topic headings below include: Tournaments, Peerage/Politics, Melee, Guns/RBGs, Focus on skill, Chivalry, and more.

Other comments on this topic are on separate pages. See the links at the bottom of this page. 
 

Choice picks

Φ AEth. ~ Can I check RBGs more than once? [Nope. *smile*]

Φ Mer. ~ I keep changing on this topic but I feel that some of our fun could be demeaning to those that lived and died by the blade.  ``Leon

Φ Tri. ~ When things like silly parrying devices or idiot scenerios are included it makes rapier seem more like a silly childrens game. Already we have far to many people who do not ever consider that they are supposed to be practicing a WEAPON disipline. Part art form part skill but it is still the study of the sword and its use. Use of the sword implies that one or the other of the participants would be injured or killed. Now I understand that we are doing this as a sport. But it is based on the reality of learning to use a rapier, cutlass dagger etc as a "Skill" and that skill is in using a weapon that was designed to kill. It deserves respect.

Be cool

Φ An Tir ~ Arrogance. I could do without others' arrogance.  ``Juana

Φ Mer. ~ Pissy people.

Blade length

Φ Caid ~ As it happens every so often, cycling the way it does, I find it disappointing when I see fighters step onto a tournament field with a blade that reaches longer than 40" from tip to forte'. The mistaken thought is that it helps their game, when in fact it is not only a crutch but a great hindrance to the development of their skill. I do not feel the same disappointment from these people when it is a war, since we're talking whole armies against armies, but on the tournament field it should be about the skill. For people such as myself, fighting against a longer blade is no problem--and I will admit a certain amount of pleasure at schooling people who use them--but for the vast majority of rapier fighters they feel their skill is not enough, and the only way they can counter the obstacle is to obtain a longer blade as well. In short, if left up to me, I would limit blade length on the tournament field to 40" or less, but still allow longer blades in the war!  ``Tora

Boasts, insults

Φ Atl. ~ I don't like to have to think up 'insults' for every member of the round tourney and have had to do this several times for upwards of 15ish fencers. I like (most of) my fellow fencers and don't feel that the best 'insults' should score points in a fencing tourney - just the fencing should.  ``Celric

Φ Mid. ~ Boasting, swaggering, bragging, and insulting other gentles are things I would like to see disappear. Their negative social effects outweigh the bit of fun that they add, and often the gentles who take part in these things do not understand or do not care that these things make the experience unpleasant for others.  ``Toshikage

Chivalry, dignity, respect

Φ AEth. ~ Anything that detracts from the dignity of the game is unpleasant for me.  ``Christian

Φ An Tir ~ I try to avoid these comedic approaches to combat, I agree with those that would like to gain a little more respect with what we are doing.  ``Draven

Φ Aten. ~ As a 'historical" fencer I consider this to be both an art and a topic of scholarly study, not a game. The silly stuff is just that to me - silly.  ``John Patrick

Φ Drach. ~ Unchivalrous behaviour on the field.

Φ Drach. ~ Its various kind of schtick that keeps fencing as a sideshow activity in the SCA rather than a martial art which is respected by all.  ``Raphael

Costume

Φ East ~ Other peoples' silly costumes have sometimes taken away from the fencing for me--For instance, I met a lady with giant red pigtails attached to her mask.

Duel

Φ An Tir ~ I like to duel ... the other stuff is just fluff.

Φ An Tir ~ Referring to SCA Fencing as SCA Rapier Combat because I don't "fence", I fight as if it were a duel.

Focus on skill, martial art

Φ AEth. ~ There I times when I would just rather meet skill with skill.

Φ Aten. ~ I'm a fencer, a duellist. Not a trained monkey capering for an audience who doesn't really understand what I do anyway...  ``Senan

Φ Atl. ~ When I'm actually working on something in particular, then the silly scenarios and other stuff get in the way. But that's for practice.  ``Costanca

Φ Caid ~ Extremely silly scenarios can be a little trying if they have nothing to do with skill.  ``Todde

Φ Caid ~ I've been watching period fence since it started in Caid. I've seen a lot. I know what I like and don't like. I hate silly scenarios and silly secondaries and other silly crap on the field. Get out there, fence, and look good doing it.

Φ East ~ Welll... the above is why I do more fencing in the AHF than in the SCA...  ``Armand

Φ Tri. ~ I tend to look at light weapons as an extension of the heavy weapons ethos, and view it as a martial art, not as street theater.

Gender issues

Φ Anst. ~ Male fencers who have problems fencing against women.

Guns, RBGs

Φ AEth. ~ I'm really kind of ambivalent abot RBG's. I'm not sure I like them at all but I do like taking gunners out with a sword.

Φ An Tir ~ If I want to just point and shoot, I'll play paintball. I want to engage in the sport I practice - rapier.  ``Vincent

Φ Atl. ~ Thrown and or shot weapons. I realize I'm in the minority, but I only enjoy single combat tournament stlye fighting.  ``Cristobal

Φ Mid. ~ I like all of the above, I just don't like RBG's. If I wanted to fire a weapon, I'd go to a firing range or play paintball. I fence to use swords. That's just my opinion.  ``Lydia

Φ Nor. ~ I can't stand rubber band guns.

Φ Tri. ~ I am not real happy with RBGs, mostly because I like to fence and die quickly when they are around.

Φ Tri. ~ As you said.. we do this cause its fun. How fun is it to have a line of guys with brace going against another line of brace AND ONE WITH A RBG SNIPING OUR LINE BEFORE WE CAN EVEN GET CLOSE. Aside from everyone Ive talked to says its right on the edge of out of period.  ``Gavine

Keep it moving

Φ Anst. ~ Anything else that takes more time to explain than to fight.  ``Chiara

Φ Loch. ~ ... heavily overdone death throes, or five minutes of introduction by a herald before the bout begins.  ``Francois

Melee, scenario

Φ Anst. ~ Wanted to let you know that I don't like melees and would prefer to keep melees out of my fencing experience. smile.

Φ Aten. ~ And rapier "wars" or "melees" are historically inaccurate in the extreme. I play in them because they are so very prevalent, but I don't much like them.  ``John Patrick

Φ East ~ I hate all melees, no matter what the scenario.

Φ Nor. ~ No melee, it's silly.  ``Fiskr

Φ Out. ~ I don't much like melee in general.  Rapier is a personal defense/tournament weapon.  ``Carrick

Φ Tri. ~ I dislike melee, as its basically not historically accurate, more important, its more dangerous. DFB may not be the rule, but death from some angle not watched is! Further, after all the years of fencing, Ive sustained more and serious injuries from stupid melees and people in them than on any field.  ``Coinneach

Melee - DFB/DKFB

Φ East ~ I really despise death from behind.  ``Jane

Φ Mid. ~ Death from behind.

Silly scenarios

Φ Nor. ~ A few of the ones I have fenced in were just too silly even for me.  ``David

Φ Out. ~ I don't like stupid, silly or dangerous scenarios are designed by people that don't fence and are "justified" by saying something like "It is gonna be fun, try it."  ``Doring

Peerage, politics

Φ An Tir ~ Politics, elitism and snobbery.  ``Caiaphas
Φ East ~ No politics.
Φ Loch. ~ Pretensiousness. titles. beurocracy.
Φ Nor. ~ A Peerage for rapier.  ``Rodrigo
Φ West ~ No politics and no heavies snubbing us.

Salutes

Φ Loch. ~ I lack tolerance for the three standard salutes (crown, favour, opponent), and prefer to allow the combattant to chose whom they will salute.  ``Francois

Silly secondaries

Φ Caid ~ I don't like the stuffed animals.  ``Johann
Φ Mid. ~ Well, there's this certain lizard that gets really annoying...  ``Robert

Talk talk

Φ An Tir ~ I dislike tournaments that look like fight practice. Discussion about the fight should wait until the fight is over.

Theatrics

Φ AEth. ~ I have absolutely despised every tournament I have ever fought in that involved silly things like fake accents or theatrics (and don't fight in them anymore!) This is not just a personal preference for dignified conduct on and off the field - I feel that silly theatrics only reinforce the stereotype that light weapons fighters are "fringy" or "not serious".  ``Sasha

Φ Mid. ~ Reading poetry and singing are the main part of theatrics that I am not fond of.

Tournament types

Φ AEth. ~ Dice tournaments, Highlander (movie/TV show) tournaments, etc. tend to lose my interest with repetition.  ``Corwin

Φ An Tir ~ Tournaments that focus soley on particular fighting styles, or techniques, i.e. all Fabris or Capo Ferro.

Φ East ~ No single elimination tournaments.  ``Brita

Φ Mid. ~ I particularly don't care for tournaments where I have to challenge random people. I prefer a tourney to be organized enough to the point where I don't have to remember who I need to fight -- or, as in the case of a bear-pit tourney, I don't have to worry about it at all.  ``Purple

Dice tourneys

Φ Atl. ~ Can I just say I hate dice tourneys? Thank you.  ``Alejandro

Φ Atl. ~ Things like the ever popular dice tourneys are just stupid! Unsafe as well, because they push people to use styles on the field that they are not sufficiently trained for.

Φ East ~ The thing I loathe most, is the silly "dice"/random draw method of choosing weapons. Sorry, I will never enter another tourney like that again.  ``Brokk

[end]

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Original page posted: October 18, 2004. Last tweaked: July 1, 2006.

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